The Sun's campaign against speed cameras

[Bahnhof Strasse]

build more test centres then. a test centre in each newbuild block.

Have on in every new house or flat. Make people take a test on a daily basis. Just to be sure.

 

[Pickman's model]

The locations of fixed camera is advertised on maps and sat-navs. And they do paint the fuckers bright yellow and stick up a warning sign. Anyone who gets caught really only has themselves to blame. Not read the Sun, but suspect what's got their goat is some filth hiding in a tractor up north somewhere with a speed gun on a road which attracts Sunday bikers for a thrape and leads to a serious injury or death a couple of time a month.

i think you'll find members of news international staff have recently been caught out by cameras.

 

[SpookyFrank]

build more test centres then. a test centre in each newbuild block.

Well that's just silly. Car-related infrastructure takes up way too much space as it is.

 

[scifisam]

I do think some speed limits could be better signposted, moreso in rural areas than urban, and posted farther ahead of the needed speed restriction. I've definitely seen some speed warning signs that I, if I were driving, would find hard to see due to foliage or traffic, and that would make me occasionally pay more attention to potential speed restrictions than other dangers.

OTOH, my GF's on a speed awareness course this weekend due to not seeing a sign (mind, she only went to 34 in a 30 area for a very brief period of time, so she wasn't horribly excessive anyway and even that's unusual for her). I was with her in the car and I always look for signs as well as her. But hey, it's a speed awareness course that costs very little and will add no points. As long as she doesn't keep on doing it, it's no big deal. She won't - she's careful.

Anyone who actually gets points for speeding is either really caning it or has done it repeatedly.

People overtake you ffs. In a 20 zone. They should put undercover traffic dibble in dummy learner cars, they'd fucking clean up.

That's actually a brilliant idea.

The Sun would hate it.

Double-plus brilliant. B)

 

[Pickman's model]

Well that's just silly. Car-related infrastructure takes up way too much space as it is.

if you thought that i was in any way serious, it is you that is silly.

 

[SpookyFrank]

loads of 50 something drivers break into a cold sweat a the thought of re-taking a test they did 40+ years ago in a car with a choke, clear roads and no theory component....

I know my dad would sturggle to drive with two hands on the wheel, having driven one-handed since God was a lad without ever having an accident.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

loads of 50 something drivers break into a cold sweat a the thought of re-taking a test they did 40+ years ago in a car with a choke, clear roads and no written component....

Retaking tests is stupid, most people can drive well enough. Something like the speed awareness course might be a good idea for everyone though, just to keep you updated on changes, such as anti-locking breaks, traction control, air-bags etc., all of which have come about in to most cars in the past 20 years and which you should change your driving style to accommodate them.

 

[8ball]

Yes. I was taught to leave enough gap between me and the car in front when in a queue of traffic so I could see tyres and tarmac. It's amazing the amount of drivers that leave hardly any gap at all.

And that's when stopped. Plenty of them will leave almost no gap at 50mph.

 

[mauvais]

All this "judgement" stuff is about drivers' illusion of personal freedom, isn't it?

The damage done by a collision rises with the square of the speed. Hitting someone at 40mph is four times as damaging as hitting them at 20mph. The probability of killing them, or leaving them in a wheelchair for life, almost certainly rises much faster than that.

Plain physics. The outcome of any accident is worse. Stop it.

Speed affects the outcome, but has a looser relationship with the probability of having an accident in the first place.

And no, judgement isn't about personal freedom to drive at any speed. Often a speed limit is inappropriately high, especially the smaller the context, and to drive at it would be dangerous. The hazards in particular environments vary all the time, time of day and weather etc, and speed limits usually don't. For this and many other reasons, they are a simplistic measure, and continuously making your own sane judgement about what's appropriate would be a better idea. Most people do this to a reasonable extent, but if we had better driver education (viz all the 'I learnt something on a SAC' posts) and a better relationship between driver & authority (or community), then that might be deeper and more likely.

Making it all about a number is not helpful in that regard, but given the resources we currently have & are willing to commit, it might be the best we can do. I find it a bit disappointing.

 

[SpookyFrank]

if you thought that i was in any way serious, it is you that is silly.

I suppose your reference to 'new builds' should have been a clear sign that you were operating in the realms of fantasy.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I know my dad would sturggle to drive with two hands on the wheel, having driven one-handed since God was a lad without ever having an accident.

Good example.Tell your dad what will happen to him when the airbag goes off whilst his arm is across the wheel. At best he'll smash his nose in to his head.

 

[Pickman's model]

I suppose your reference to 'new builds' should have been a clear sign that you were operating in the realms of fantasy.

just so. you see it now.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

That would be exceedingly dangerous

Not necessarily; if everybody was restricted to 70 mph top speed it would just change the way you drive because you wouldn't have the option of putting your foot down...of course it won't happen.

Cheers - Louis Macneice

 

[Blagsta]

Bit unfair on good drivers though, in terms of cost and hassle. Most test centres are booked solid as it is.

If someone's a good driver, they'll have nothing to worry about. Maybe refund some of the cost if you pass.

 

[8ball]

Often a speed limit is inappropriately high, especially the smaller the context, and to drive at it would be dangerous.

Oh, the fuckwits on the road the last time we had freezing fog.

I've never been so glad to get back into a 30 zone, and even that was way too high for the conditions.

 

[snadge]

It's more common in rural areas too IME. If someone is clearly drink driving then other people often won't make a fuss about it.

In France drink driving seems to be mandatory.

Also in Cyprus..

I have no problem with speedcameras doing what they are supposed to do but I do have a problem with the cynical way some are used on stretches of road with speed limit changes, not only that but the limits change over time (constantly over a 3 year period so far for the stretch near where I live) the limits are usually changes between 40/50 and national, there are no junctions/houses or change in carraigeway.


I have been caught once, by a misplaced camera coming into roadworks on a motorway, I paid it but fought it for a long time, the camera had been placed in the 2 lane part, 50mph and was calibrated to catch 30+ mph which was signposted 200 mtrs further on, I actually got the points wiped and the fine refunded when a class action of people fought it through court.

 

[Blagsta]

Well that's just silly. Car-related infrastructure takes up way too much space as it is.

My local test centre is just a waiting room, probably a small office out the back.

 

[Blagsta]

Retaking tests is stupid, most people can drive well enough. Something like the speed awareness course might be a good idea for everyone though, just to keep you updated on changes, such as anti-locking breaks, traction control, air-bags etc., all of which have come about in to most cars in the past 20 years and which you should change your driving style to accommodate them.

Most people drive like wankers ime

 

[Blagsta]

Oh, the fuckwits on the road the last time we had freezing fog.

I've never been so glad to get back into a 30 zone, and even that was way too high for the conditions.

Lots of people seem to think that a speed limit means they have to drive at the speed limit.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Most people drive like wankers ime

Most don't ime.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

My main concern on a daily basis is tailgating. It seems to be almost ubiquitous among the motoring public.

My one is people using a mobile while doing 70+ on the motorway; it seems to me that a lot of people think this is quite ok...it isn't.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[DotCommunist]

Retaking tests is stupid, most people can drive well enough. Something like the speed awareness course might be a good idea for everyone though, just to keep you updated on changes, such as anti-locking breaks, traction control, air-bags etc., all of which have come about in to most cars in the past 20 years and which you should change your driving style to accommodate them.

perhaps something similar to maintaining ones hours to keep a flightworthy license.I mean someone who hasn't driven since the beatles were still together can just hop in any motor he likes today and off he goes.

at least with motorcycle licenses theres stages

 

[Blagsta]

Most don't ime.

yeah, but you're a wanker

 

[Pickman's model]

perhaps something similar to maintaining ones hours to keep a flightworthy license.I mean someone who hasn't driven since the eatles were still together can just hop in any motor he likes today and off he goes.

i would expect he'd be picked up for stealing a car quite quickly.

 

[mauvais]

Oh, the fuckwits on the road the last time we had freezing fog.

I've never been so glad to get back into a 30 zone, and even that was way too high for the conditions.

Exactly. And manifested in accidents, like the M5 'fireworks' crash, and the massive hundred car pileup on a bridge somewhere a year or so ago. But in both cases, the participants were probably driving at the posted speed limit, into something that they couldn't see to be clear, in part I suspect because a correlation has been drawn between 'not speeding' and 'safe'. And for the most part they won't be punished, and the system won't be changed, unlike huge accidents in any other field (e.g. aviation, industry).

But what should be the cardinal fucking rule of driving, something like, 'be able to stop in the distance you can reasonably expect to remain clear', is too nuanced and complicated to bother with now, and that's what gets my goat when we obsess about numbers on a pole.

 

[8ball]

Most people drive like wankers ime

Nah, the wankers are more noticeable.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not necessarily; if everybody was restricted to 70 mph top speed it would just change the way you drive because you wouldn't have the option of putting your foot down...of course it won't happen.

Cheers - Louis Macneice

70mph is unnecessarily slow for motorways. Hence almost zero enforcement of motorway speed limits. Unless you're driving a Lada Riva with tin brakes (in which case it prbably won't get past 42 anyway) then your stopping distance at 80 will be perfectly fine unless you're driving like a wanker.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

yeah, but you're a wanker

Yet you're the one taking the Ronnie Pickering position in judging other road users.

Tell us again how many years driving experience you have Ronnie.

 

[8ball]

But what should be the cardinal fucking rule of driving, something like, 'be able to stop in the distance you can reasonably expect to remain clear', is too nuanced and complicated to bother with now, and that's what gets my goat when we obsess about numbers on a pole.

I prefer to be able to stop in the distance I can see clearly, though there's a balance to be struck when other drivers get massively wound up about it.

 

[laptop]

Speed affects the outcome, but has a looser relationship with the probability of having an accident in the first place.

Which is a good enough reason for having a strict, arbitrary limit.