existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I'd say this presents a more significant risk to safety that speeding alone. Of course, lots of tailgaters speed, too, which exacerbates the risk, but yes - I'd be pleased to see that enforced more.
The Sun's campaign against speed cameras
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Yes. I was taught to leave enough gap between me and the car in front when in a queue of traffic so I could see tyres and tarmac. It's amazing the amount of drivers that leave hardly any gap at all.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Same in a 30. I'd be driving dead on 30 and cars would beep and overtake. It appears that many people don't like being behind a learner, even if the learner is driving well.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
You're supposed to have enough space to pull out and go round them if they break down. So yeah, some visible tarmac would help with that.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Definitely.
And I'm not sure spies-in-the-cab or more speed cameras are the way to do this.
I'm old enough to remember the paradigm shift (that might be over-egging it slightly) around drink driving. When I started drinking (this would be about 1980ish), it was still broadly acceptable to have several pints and drive home; 10 years later, I can remember people saying "No, I'll get a taxi rather than come back with you - you're pissed". Somehow, we managed to change driver behaviour around completely, and it wasn't just about enforcement and penalties, though they played their part - what really made the difference was the social change which made drink drivers into social pariahs.
They've tried that with speeding, and it has only been partly effective, because (I think) a lot of people recognise that speeding is not the whole of the problem. Maybe if they focused more generally on "inconsiderate driving" of all kinds, they might have a bit more traction.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
cars are such money pits and fuel is well expensive. I suppose when you are paying 200 quid a month to run your ford escort a ball of impotent rage forms in the back of your head at the cost, sometimes unleashed on other road users (ronnie fucking pickering!). But sometimes at the 'unfair' hidden speed cameras, the lolypop lady etc
Orang Utan
Maybe I like the misery
On the drink driving point, existentialist , I thought it had become a taboo until recently when it became apparent that someone I know regularly drink drives. He's a teacher and in his mid 20s and drives to go up to central London at the weekend. He won't get spectacularly drunk, but that's not the point
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
perhaps the sun is lashing out in reaction on behalf of its readers who this week were denied the fundemental human right to hotbox their kids with cancer causing smoke
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
I've always driven too fast. Recently had to do a speed awareness course and one thing on it really changed the way I approach driving; They showed us a picture of an empty street at night and asked us what speed we would go down there. I thought around 40-45 was OK even though I knew it was a 30.
Next picture showed the aftermath of a car hitting a pedestrian on that street late at night. He ran out of an ally straight in to the path of the car without looking and the impact killed him instantly. They showed a picture of the car, looked like a boy racer's motor. Turns out the driver was a 48 year old woman driving her son's car home after a night out at the cinema. She was doing 46 when she hit him. Although he was to blame for running out without looking, she was sent to prison for EIGHT YEARS. The term they used was, "The speed she chose was 46mph." That really hit home. She wasn't doing 46mph, she chose to do 46mph and as a result a man died and her world got pretty fucked up too.
I know the street in the picture and drive down it from time to time, very sobering.
Now I just need something to stop me tanning it on motorways and I'll be a model driver...
Next picture showed the aftermath of a car hitting a pedestrian on that street late at night. He ran out of an ally straight in to the path of the car without looking and the impact killed him instantly. They showed a picture of the car, looked like a boy racer's motor. Turns out the driver was a 48 year old woman driving her son's car home after a night out at the cinema. She was doing 46 when she hit him. Although he was to blame for running out without looking, she was sent to prison for EIGHT YEARS. The term they used was, "The speed she chose was 46mph." That really hit home. She wasn't doing 46mph, she chose to do 46mph and as a result a man died and her world got pretty fucked up too.
I know the street in the picture and drive down it from time to time, very sobering.
Now I just need something to stop me tanning it on motorways and I'll be a model driver...
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SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
If anything my problem is spending more time watching the speedo than actually looking where I'm going tbh. But I'm a new driver, I assume you learn to judge your speed by eye after a while.
I would definitely know the difference between 30 and 45 without looking at the speedo though.
I would definitely know the difference between 30 and 45 without looking at the speedo though.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
There's always a few, and there always will be. But it is hard to convey to anyone who wasn't around at the time just how blasé people were about it. It wasn't at all unusual to hear people expressing sympathy towards someone who'd been caught drink-driving and banned for it...but over 10 years that changed to the point that most people wouldn't readily admit to it in the first place. But there were, and always will be, headbangers who aren't bothered. Any decent justice system doesn't penalise the majority for the behaviour of people like that.On the drink driving point, existentialist , I thought it had become a taboo until recently when it became apparent that someone I know regularly drink drives. He's a teacher and in his mid 20s and drives to go up to central London at the weekend. He won't get spectacularly drunk, but that's not the point
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Go and have a look at the difference in the fine for being caught speeding on the motorway: that might help.
TBF, I used to zip around at 80ish on the motorway, and only got a ticket once in thousands of miles of driving (and I got off that one!!), so the risk of getting caught is definitely lower. But more and more motorways are getting average speed cameras installed, and those babies don't cut you ANY slack, so you might as well get used to it now as find out the hard way...
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
The problem is that, as speed enforcement via camera has gone up, human enforcement has dropped - a lot of police forces did the maths in the late 90s and realised that camera enforcement was cost-neutral, while having Rozzers in Rovers was always going to cost more than they recouped in fines.
And cameras can only detect speeding - they don't really catch tailgaters, middle lane hoggers, and what one might group together as "discourteous" (dangerous) driving behaviours. So those tend to get prosecuted a lot less, which means that people can generally drive like cunts, so long as they do it below the speed limit, without much risk of getting done for it.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
years back i got a lift back from the pub from a mate. we'd gone half a mile when he turned to me and said 'i find i drive better after 3 pints'.On the drink driving point, existentialist , I thought it had become a taboo until recently when it became apparent that someone I know regularly drink drives. He's a teacher and in his mid 20s and drives to go up to central London at the weekend. He won't get spectacularly drunk, but that's not the point
Plumdaff
increasingly dispiriting
I must admit I drive fast on motorways, if conditions allow. I suspect I'm more fallible than I realise about judging those conditions and should err on the side of caution. I do abide by the speed limits in built up areas though. On a day to day basis tailgating is the real hazard I notice, there's a link road I have to use regularly here in Cardiff that I find genuinely frightening at times, just car after car tailgating at 70. No surprise it's often closed due to accidents.
I've also noticed as a pedestrian more drivers driving across pedestrian crossings when you're on them or about to cross, this is when I'm taking and collecting my daughter from school. It's incredibly dangerous and I'd happily ban the bastards that do it.
I've also noticed as a pedestrian more drivers driving across pedestrian crossings when you're on them or about to cross, this is when I'm taking and collecting my daughter from school. It's incredibly dangerous and I'd happily ban the bastards that do it.
mauvais
on reddit or something
But plenty where you can exceed 70mph. Also you don't need lights and sirens to exceed the speed limit under an exemption (e.g. police). That would be policy, not law.
Also, whilst it's perhaps not to be encouraged, there are occasions where it would be legitimate - but not lawful, as it's statutory - to exceed the speed limit. If you were overtaking something, for instance, and in the middle of it a previously unseen hazard emerged that was better dealt with by completing the overtake faster, then personally that's what I'd rather you did, rather than creating a huge but possibly legal accident.
Artaxerxes
Look out, he's got a gnu!
Its amazing how close a car will drive behind you when your on a bike.
Ride or die sometimes.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
The Guardian piece is pretty shit too.
Well duh! That'll be because they are, and to suggest otherwise is moronic.
I haven't read The Sun piece but advertising the locations of speed cameras makes perfect sense. The idea is to stop drivers from speeding in the first place, not to catch them when they do.
Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
"Using their exemption".
souljacker
innit
When I did my speed awareness course, it was amazing how few people knew what the actual speed limits were. Personally, I think having to retake your test every ten years would make a big difference to road safety.
I also think it's perfectly safe to do 90 on a motorway, but that's a whole different argument.
I also think it's perfectly safe to do 90 on a motorway, but that's a whole different argument.
mauvais
on reddit or something
As for the subject, I've nothing particularly against hiding speed cameras. It's basically a spot check that you can't avoid. That we should have a system where with a bit of knowledge you can do what you like except in a very specific, easily discovered place is a bit odd.
But, I do have something against the principle of speed cameras, if not the practice, and certainly the heavy emphasis on speed rather than personal judgement, behaviour and responsibility. Unfortunately cameras have become necessary, but they are in part responsible for that. If you make driving all about blind compliance with a number on a stick, often an arbitrary and sometimes poorly chosen one, then you stop it being about personal decision making and the whole spectrum of other things that you probably won't be caught for. I'd rather people were channelled towards doing that through education, testing etc, but that's expensive, and so we have a lazy, authoritarian way of doing it instead.
But, I do have something against the principle of speed cameras, if not the practice, and certainly the heavy emphasis on speed rather than personal judgement, behaviour and responsibility. Unfortunately cameras have become necessary, but they are in part responsible for that. If you make driving all about blind compliance with a number on a stick, often an arbitrary and sometimes poorly chosen one, then you stop it being about personal decision making and the whole spectrum of other things that you probably won't be caught for. I'd rather people were channelled towards doing that through education, testing etc, but that's expensive, and so we have a lazy, authoritarian way of doing it instead.
All this "judgement" stuff is about drivers' illusion of personal freedom, isn't it?
The damage done by a collision rises with the square of the speed. Hitting someone at 40mph is four times as damaging as hitting them at 20mph. The probability of killing them, or leaving them in a wheelchair for life, almost certainly rises much faster than that.
Plain physics. The outcome of any accident is worse. Stop it.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
On the drink driving point, existentialist , I thought it had become a taboo until recently when it became apparent that someone I know regularly drink drives. He's a teacher and in his mid 20s and drives to go up to central London at the weekend. He won't get spectacularly drunk, but that's not the point
It's more common in rural areas too IME. If someone is clearly drink driving then other people often won't make a fuss about it.
In France drink driving seems to be mandatory.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Bit unfair on good drivers though, in terms of cost and hassle. Most test centres are booked solid as it is.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
build more test centres then. a test centre in each newbuild block.
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
The locations of fixed camera is advertised on maps and sat-navs. And they do paint the fuckers bright yellow and stick up a warning sign. Anyone who gets caught really only has themselves to blame. Not read the Sun, but suspect what's got their goat is some filth hiding in a tractor up north somewhere with a speed gun on a road which attracts Sunday bikers for a thrape and leads to a serious injury or death a couple of time a month.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
loads of 50 something drivers break into a cold sweat a the thought of re-taking a test they did 40+ years ago in a car with a choke, clear roads and no theory component....
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