Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Cloud, Apr 17, 2007.
Just had a leaflet through the door from the socialist party.
What are your views on them?
Are they the ones with the 'office' on Clapham high Street?
NEVER associate them with the Socialist Worker's Party. You will be heaped with scorn.
What does the leaflet say about who they are?
There are two.
The Socialist Party (ex-Militant) now part of Socialsit Alliance, Campaign for a New Workers Party, etc.
The Socialist Party of GB: anti-Leninist loons who have been denouncing everyone since 1904 and you have to pass a test to be a member. One of the more amusing tiny far-left sects.
I am kind of assuming it it this one, but maybe not...
if they were standing locally, i'd definitely vote for them. I would prefer it if they were asian and on the right side of 30 though.
there are 3 actually, the SPGB split into two several years ago.
And the SPEW left the socialist alliance years ago.
Coventry - Socialist Party's track record
The work and pressure of the three Socialist Party councillors in Coventry has helped in many of the battles fought by themselves and local people, including:
* Millions of pounds in funding won for Far Gosford St - the oldest shopping street in the city.
* A determined fight for public green open space, that was scheduled to be fenced off by a non-community school.
* Ensuring that tenants in a city centre block secured replacement housing on site and a doubling of their compensation awards.
* Mobilising the local community in Hillfields to fight for disabled tenants who wanted to stay in the area. New specially-adapted homes are now to be built thanks to this effort.
* In the Charterhouse area, winning £65,000 for a new residents' parking scheme.
* Fighting for green space in Henley Green to become a village green rather than be smashed up by developers.
* Attending every picket line in the fight against disgraceful cuts in council workers' pay.
* Fully supporting PCS members fighting for their jobs, pay and conditions as well as the services they provide.
* Supporting postal staff trying to keep a sorting office in Coventry.
* Being the only party on the council to oppose Trident, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Wasn't aware that Coventry Council had it's own defence capability, never mind that they'd invaded Iraq & Afghanistan.....
SPEW have rejoined/refounded the Socialist Alliance (http://www.socialistalliance.org/)
I presume you're referring above to the expelled Socialist Studies group, who sometimes try to use the name of the SPGB, who expelled them. They have around 24 members and don't exist outside NW London, I think.
no they havent - they're not even listed on the affiliates list.
They have entered into a 'non-agression'/electoral pact with the alliance, but aren't members - it would be a bit daft for them to join that whilst trying to set up the CNWP
The involvement of Dave Nellist with the SA (I think he's on the NEC) led me to believe there was an institutional link but I could be wrong.
The Socialist Party haven't rejoined the Socialist Alliance. The latter had a national membership of 11, according to their latest minutes. The may be work together in the unreal SGUC or the CNWP but all the SP candidates in the local elections will be under their own banner (apart from in Kirklees).
And the Socialist Studies group have tended to stop using the SPGB name because the other one started calling in the police to stop them.
I'm a member. So my views are biast (but arn't they all...)
There is not really 3 socialist parties - there are two very small groups who split from each other to form even smaller groups who happen to have the name 'Socialist Party of Great Britain' but have achieved precisely zero in 100+ years of existence and then there's the Socialist Party which is the organisation that came out of the Militant splitting from the Labour Party.
Small but with a more significent trade union base than any other left wing group, working for the rebuilding of a new party to represent working people (but not deluding ourselves that this will simply be ourselves!), and has councillors in Coventry, Huddersfield (as a campaigner defending the NHS) and Lewisham. The Militant played the key role in the defeat of the Poll Tax, in the struggle in Liverpool against Thatcher and the founding of the initial Scottish Socialist Party. As with the Militant, the SPs leading membership is a group of trade union activists (hence the leading role in two of the three recent trade union battles in the NHS and in the Civil Service Union - PCS for example). The SP has a record of campaigning on bread and butter issues for working people - jobs, housing, education etc and is part of the CWI (Committee for a Workers International - website here: http://www.socialistworld.net )
The website is here: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk
The SP see the Socialist Alliance (even what is left of it after its destruction by the then largest element) as one of a number of small left initiatives regrouping in the UK - we maintain friendly relations were possible (for example not standing against each other in election) and try to work with them even if we cannot see much point in being 'members' or putting all eggs in one basket.
The present SA is a shadow of what was - a then quite small initiative (but a damn sight bigger than the even smaller group that still holds onto the name). For 3-4 years we worked closely as part of this electoral alliance. Dave (a left wing, ex-labour, still-militant MP) was one of the founders of the initial (and sadly later destroyed) SA.
Well they are complaining about privatisation of council services and wanting public ownership of buses. Sounds good to me. The congestion around here is a joke and the bus fares keep going up and up. Can't remember the last time anyone tidied up the green spaces around here. The only time they do it's when they are trying to attract business to the new developments, few of which seem to offer local employment.
Don't trust my current MP one bit so I might check them out
SPEW is the 'hilarious' misnomer invented by the Communist Party of Great Britain (I think?). They like 'cheeky' little digs such as this as a replacement for genuine politics (and plenty of other idiots still find the joke 'hilarious' it seems...).
It comes from Socialist Party England and Wales (which was to differenciate ourselves from our independent Scottish sister group) - although we call ourselves the SP.
You based in Sheffield - the SP have played a big role in the anti-privatised bus mess campaign up there?
Fair point - i imagine this was simply to make people aware of thier views on the Iraq War and its aftermath - which is an issue that a lot of folk have strong views on even given this is simply local elections
Stoke Socialist Party have been involved in NorSCARF (local anti-fascist group, similar to, but not UAF), various local anti-war protests and have played a major role in fighting against NHS cutbacks in North Staffordshire. Never been a member, but they seemed decent people fighting for a worthy cause.
So...SPEW stands for Socialist Party England and Wales. Therefore it isn't a misnomer. It's the name of your party and there's nothing 'hilarious' about it.
yes, you are very 'funny' but don't give up the day job.
The Socialist Party is the Socialist Party - the irish section of the CWI is also the Socialist Party in Ireland but is not called SPI. The Australian section of the CWI is the Socialist Party in Australia but is not called SPA. Its a name invented by a certain type of arse who prefers snide asides, standing on the sidelines and general idiocy to actually fighting for issues that interest working people. I hope that does not include you? (but given that is the only point I have made you seem to have an opinion on I have to assume it does...)
ps you are still in the Labour Party quagmire?? - I'd be more interested in your reasoning for that...
There are one or two "Impossiblists" on Urban. One of them has a username that's a dead giveaway.
Oh and SPGB really stands for "Small Party of Good Boys".
Funnily enough the SP has to stand as 'Socialist Alternative" in elections. We are not allowed to use our own name, apparently, because of a legal campaign by the SPGB who clearly (all 5 of them...) retain the same priorities they have held for 100+ years - being foolish and irrelevent.
Personally I don't think thats a bad electoral name anyway.
so (for quagmire) - its either SP(E&W) or SP(SA) in future sonny
No it doesn't include me, but thanks for the implication anyway. I used that acronym as I would use CPB, CPGB or whatever, because I understood it to be the initials of the party and to distinguish it from the SPGB.
Don't be so touchy.
I am still in the LP because, in short, and in my constituency, I've got more chance of successfully "fighting for issues that interest working people" within it than outside it.
Anytime (anytime you step on mine that is...)
I know a couple of good local labour councillors. They work well as any councillor worth thier salt (or votes) would - regardless of party affiliation. They still hold on to the idea of the labour party as a party for working people. I was a member of the old LP for 12+ years myself.
But ... when New Labour in power are pushing through the worst post-war attacks on working class communities that we have seen - not as an occasional cock-up but as a systematic and ideologically led assault on the living conditions, rights etc of the majority of people in this country - you have to question how providing, in effect, a fig leaf for such policies by associating oneself with this at the local level can be legitimised.
I mean - housing sell-offs, the destruction of social housing, education privatisation, nhs privatisation, driving down of wages and workers rights, setting one group of people against anougher, being the biggest lapdog of american imperial expansion on the planet, the levels of sycophancy, the moral and social corruption etc etc etc - how is this "fighting for issues that interest working people". There has got to be a point where you say - this organisation has fundementally changed (and make the difficult, in the short term, but necessary, in the longer term, position of trying to re-build an independant working class voice). What would that take for you given the short list above??
I just wondered mate...
Firstly, I'd disagree that I am providing a "fig leaf" for anything. My being a member doesn't help New Labour push through their neo-liberal policies. What helps that is a supine LP in Parliament. My local MP is one of the small group in Parliament (and therefore more significant than any other left group) who oppose said attacks i.e. a decent, principled socialist 'Old' Labour MP.
As long as the LP is institutionally linked to the trade unions, it is the best option for progressive change in this country unfortunately.
What happened to the councillor in Stoke (the one who didn't lose his seat to the BNP last year)?
Oh, i don't mean you personally - i was thinking of the elected labour councillors (like the folk I mentioned). Thats a reasonable answer, given you have a good MP. The question hat arrises though is whether MP can do feck to change the direction of the parliamentry party? The left gives out hardly a wimper and hasn't for an awful long time - despite clear reasons for having to speak up (say the Iraq war - let alone the privatisation programmes) - when Abbot is seen as part of the left its no wonder - they must be desperate. I mean do you seriously believe there is anything 'left' as a force in the party now?
The thing is it is not. If the supine trade union leaders say anything out of place the final cords will be cut. They don't hold conference to account as they once did. Hell, conference itself does not hold the leadership to account. The LP leadership has already made significient mumourings in the direction of 'public' funding of parties. Trade union 'leaders' are part of the problem for ordinary folk - they have swallowed hook, line and pension safe sinker the same ideology. How much will you take beyond the final cutting of links to the organised class? Would you be in the democratic party in the US on the same basis as your reasons for being a member of new labour?
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