When I say reading up i meant "looking at interviews on the internet" so not really in the realms of research tbf
"i can't take a sickie, i've got SO much work to do".
The Slits! (trailblazed punk for girls, apparently)
- Thread starter sumimasen
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"i can't take a sickie, i've got SO much work to do".
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
When I say reading up i meant "looking at interviews on the internet" so not really in the realms of research tbf
well to be fair to her I think The Slits as a group are a good example of how punk opened things up and allowed different people to express themselves - more so than Siouxsie who arguably fits into the well worn "conventionally attractive lead singer backed my muso blokes" role.
There's a book about The Slits about to come out as well, so your research can be expanded!
http://www.amazon.com/Typical-Girls...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254313861&sr=1-1
ouchmonkey
Singe Gainsbourg
she's not even at work, she's just in the library trying to get some peace.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
"i can't take a sickie, i've got SO much work to do".
If Pieface feels that researching Ari Up is essential to her career then I am certainly not going to contradict her!
I'm in the library ordering books about punk women now
I am pretty fascinated by the girls in punk mind - did it empower women or was it bullshit like the hippie movement?
perhaps not punk so much, but post punk genuinely did (i think) - at least while it lasted. Bear in mind it happened concurrently with the anarcho scene which had a very strong feminist slant (and not just blokes paying lipservice to feminism to shag feminists).
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I think it did and it didn't - certainly there was scope for women to move slightly outside conventional roles and to look unconventional.
Difficult to say whether it had any lasting effect. Certainly if you look at the role of women in videos in the mainstream charts things are pretty dreadful at the moment.
yeh, that's why i said "while it lasted", unfortunately post-punk ended up as new pop, it was all escapism and the creativity dried up. Riot Grrl was a fairly insignificant blip sadly, at least over here
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
yeah I think we pretty much agree.
I remember reading some interviews about this and few women did say punk was important to them because you could go out and not be chatted up or felt up incessantly...
I remember reading some interviews about this and few women did say punk was important to them because you could go out and not be chatted up or felt up incessantly...
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
Slits interview in Loud & Quiet mag in July - http://www.loudandquiet.com/articles/3/709/the+slits
and as impressive as Siouxsie was, goth girls hardly blazed a feminist trail for the most part. They seemed to pick up on the make-up rather than anything else about her
like the nazi armband?
yes, trev, siouxsie was a nazi. goes without saying.
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
Poly Styrene did much more. imo ofc. The Slits shot themselves in the foot when they (very quickly) started holding hands with members of The Clash. Lost a bit of punk-girl cred then.
ouchmonkey
Singe Gainsbourg
no one would be in the slightest suprised
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
and as impressive as Siouxsie was, goth girls hardly blazed a feminist trail for the most part. They seemed to pick up on the make-up rather than anything else about her
yes, but goth as a subculture does at least give women a few options and a bit of freedom in terms of body shape? (it's a cliche but there is a definite "fat goth" archetype)
On the surface it is quite restrictive (esp the colour scheme) but some teenage girls I know have become a bit emo/goth because there is far less emphasis on appearance than with their classmates "who are all trying to look like Britney".
actually, that's true and I was being unfair. There was a fair bit of passivity on the goth scene, but yeh - it did give an outlet to less conventional ideas about attractiveness.
And yeh, if i had a daughter I'd rather she was an emo than a lot of the alternatives
Things seem to backslide don't they?
It must be so fucking exhausting being the outspoken vanguard for Women In Music but there's something so hard about the women in punk (that I know about - I'm aware my knowledge is limited) that it kind of echoes the women in boardrooms cliché of becoming a ballbreaker to take part in a men's game.
But perhaps that's just the music industry. Or any industry
i don't think that's necessarily true - people like the Raincoats didn't adopt a ballbreaker stance, it was more cerebral than that, and (again, at the time) they were working alongside male contemporaries (Scritti, Gang of Four, Mekons) who would have been supportive of that.
I don't really know the scene at all do I
well you do a bit, and to be fair you weren't born when the Slits existed.
You could read Rip It Up by Simon Reynolds, it's a really interesting look at the fallout from punk up to the end of the 80s (sort of), and it reads really well.
Will it tell me about the origins of punk and the bloody Roxy or can I skip that bit?
it starts after that, which is why it's such a great book - postpunk is MUCH more interesting, MUCH less documented and MUCH less full of Don Letts talking about how he played reggae at the Roxy because there weren't any punk records yet. It's a really interesting period - if i was going to get you to read any music book, it would be that one (or Bass Culture by Lloyd Bradley)
chico enrico
No hair shows you care.
I loved (love) The Pop Group.
Ari Up just comes across as a repugnant posturing upper class boho cunt of the highest order. i know people who have worked with her and believe me they would put it a lot stronger than that. probably why noone wants to work with her 'slits revue' now.
agree with the comments above re the more obvious proto-goth singers etc fitting more comfortably into the traditional 'quirky' female singer template.
something poly styrene clearly did most to subvert, followed by the likes of au pairs, delta five, kleenex etc and the women members of crass/vi subversa of poisons etc. and countless others who simply didn't present themselves or allow themselves to be presented as a token bird in the band.
i still play the 12" of slits 'grapevine' out sometimes tho
Ari Up just comes across as a repugnant posturing upper class boho cunt of the highest order. i know people who have worked with her and believe me they would put it a lot stronger than that. probably why noone wants to work with her 'slits revue' now.
agree with the comments above re the more obvious proto-goth singers etc fitting more comfortably into the traditional 'quirky' female singer template.
something poly styrene clearly did most to subvert, followed by the likes of au pairs, delta five, kleenex etc and the women members of crass/vi subversa of poisons etc. and countless others who simply didn't present themselves or allow themselves to be presented as a token bird in the band.
i still play the 12" of slits 'grapevine' out sometimes tho
i still play the 12" of slits 'grapevine' out sometimes tho
definitely the best thing they ever did
Dunno if Siouxsie was "conventionally" attractive - cliched thought that whole Goth girl thing might have later become, at first her "Ice Queen" schtick was pretty scarily confrontational.
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