Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The Reintroduction of The Beaver To the UK

wolves possibly but doubtful
bears feck right off I perfer my dangerous wildlife in somebody elses back yard
 
bring it on. i'd love to see loads of things reintroduced, up to and including woolly mammoths.
 
Shango12 - quick question. What would be the natural predators would the beavers have?

Although their aquatic habits offer excellent protection from predators, beavers are vulnerable in many ways. Beavers fall prey to wolves, coyotes, bears, lynx, and wolverines when foraging on shore or migrating overland. The river otter is able to enter the den via the water and kill the kits inside; however, an adult or subadult beaver always stays with the kits to offer protection. Sudden fluctuations in water levels can force beavers to leave their den and face danger on shore.
Click to expand...
Canadian Beavers pedators

You can cause havoc if you introduce a species in with no natural predators.
 
likesfish said:
wolves possibly but doubtful
bears feck right off I perfer my dangerous wildlife in somebody elses back yard
Click to expand...

(Check my tagline!!!)

Bears have been succesfully reintroduced into the Alps.

Wolves are also rebounding in Europe.

Wolves to Scotland soon I hope.

Bears may be a little more unrealistic for Britain (they've been absent a bit too long) but hopefully in the Alps there'll be healthy and spreading populations in the coming years.
 
at the risk of being boring, i am not sure that this is a priority. i am totally in favour, and also in favour of wolves for the highlands to control deer but in the face of serious environmental destruction in the uk and our part globally, do the ecological benefits really outweigh the cost in money and time that could and should be better spent e.g. stopping rain forest imports or cutting carbon useage in the uk??? i doubt it very much
 
Shango12 said:
That's the American Beaver, we're talking about the European Beaver, which is smaller, slimmer, nicer, has better manners, and doesn't wear a cowboy hat!:)
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of that. :rolleyes:

What are the natural preditors of the beavers? Who or what is going to keep their numbers in check?
 
durruti02 said:
at the risk of being boring, i am not sure that this is a priority. i am totally in favour, and also in favour of wolves for the highlands to control deer but in the face of serious environmental destruction in the uk and our part globally, do the ecological benefits really outweigh the cost in money and time that could and should be better spent e.g. stopping rain forest imports or cutting carbon useage in the uk??? i doubt it very much
Click to expand...

Well... the state of population of top carnivores is a key indicator of the health of an ecosystem. Additionally, programmes involving charismatic megafauna are a v useful in promoting other ecological values amongst the community

Tbh. i don't think carnivore reintroduction would divert funds from the schemes you talk aboutn.
 
fair play but the benefits to reintroducing these species in the current crisis is i think minute. It may well not divert money but that is due to wrong priorities imho.

i am not convinced of your megafauna arguement. since i was a kid in the 6ts and 7ts megafauna have beeb used inho unsuccessfully to do what you suggest. actually i think they detract from what we need which is a more wholistic way of looking at ecology that sees the benefits of all.

(btw the whole reserve strategy has i think been equally disasterous for the same reason and while i appreciate why it was followed, to save important sites, the damage to the rest of the country has been devastating)
 
durruti02 said:
fair play but the benefits to reintroducing these species in the current crisis is i think minute. It may well not divert money but that is due to wrong priorities imho.

i am not convinced of your megafauna arguement. since i was a kid in the 6ts and 7ts megafauna have beeb used inho unsuccessfully to do what you suggest. actually i think they detract from what we need which is a more wholistic way of looking at ecology that sees the benefits of all.

(btw the whole reserve strategy has i think been equally disasterous for the same reason and while i appreciate why it was followed, to save important sites, the damage to the rest of the country has been devastating)
Click to expand...

You read "Rewilding America" by Dave Foreman?

Good read on this topic...:cool:
 
durruti02 said:
the whole reserve strategy has i think been equally disasterous for the same reason
Click to expand...
Yep. I tend to agree. It's easy to think the ecosystem's in pretty good shape when you hear that condors(wolves/red kites/peregrine falcons/pumas/foxes/orchids/liverworts/whatevers) are thriving. But they're often thriving on the back of conservationists' material and energy-intensive efforts. While it's nothing compared to industrial use of environmental goods, it's still part of the same process of ignoring what's happening in some places to window-dress others.
Oh, and reintroduction: pretty, potentially good in managing some ecosystems to particular ends, feelgood, but largely a distraction.

Another good read: David Quammen: The song of the dodo. Pretty fucking depressing mind.
 
From the book I recomended above. Obvioulsy its more aimed at n America, but you should be able to see the point from this...


Top-down Regulation of Ecosystems by Large Carnivores

(Adapted from Rewilding North America)

Recent field research shows that ecosystem integrity is often dependent on the functional presence of large carnivores. John Terborgh of Duke University has studied the ecological effects of eliminating large carnivores (jaguars, pumas, and harpy eagles) from tropical forests. He tells us that big cats and eagles are major regulators of prey species numbers—the opposite of the once-upon-a-time ecological orthodoxy that saw them as unimportant. He has also found that the removal or population decline of large carnivores can alter plant species composition, particularly the balance between large- and small-seeded plants, due to increased seed and seedling predation by superabundant herbivores that are normally regulated by large carnivores. This is called top-down regulation. Terborgh and his co-authors in Continental Conservation write, “‘Top-down’ means that species occupying the highest trophic level (top carnivores) exert a controlling influence on species at the next lower level (their prey) and so forth down the trophic ladder.”

In contrast, bottom-up regulation is driven by energy moving up the food web (tropic levels) from plants to herbivores to carnivores. Although bottom-up regulation is a part of the big picture, those wildlife managers who stress it may be influenced by political considerations to keep “carnivore numbers artificially low or eliminate them altogether,” according to Brian Miller. Top-down or bottom-up, however, is not an either-or situation, but a both-and, as David Brower liked to say. Brian Miller, a conservation biologist and a fellow of The Rewilding Institute, and his colleagues point out that “forces flow in both directions simultaneously and interact while doing so.” Because top-down regulation has been so slighted by wildlife managers in the past, we now need to appreciate and celebrate its proper role in maintaining and restoring ecosystem health.

There are “two fundamentally different ways” in which the consequences of the loss of top-down regulation occur: competitive exclusion and trophic cascades.

Competitive exclusion: Through predation, carnivores can moderate competition among similar species so that more species are able to use a certain habitat. On the other hand, when freed from control by its predators, one species in a guild of species may be able to outcompete and thus eliminate the others. As Brian Miller and company write, “Removing the predator will dissolve the ecological boundaries that check competition.”

Trophic cascades: In top-down regulation, different trophic levels are limited by the next level up. For example, in a simple system of three trophic levels—plants, herbivores, and carnivores—plants are limited by herbivores, which are limited by predators. A classic example of a trophic cascade has been described from years of research on the relationship between wolves, moose, and balsam fir on Isle Royale National Park in Lake Superior. When the wolf population is low, growth in the firs is depressed because of heavy browsing by moose.

Michael Soulè sees trophic cascades, when top-down regulation of ecosystems is truncated by the loss of large carnivores, playing out in four ways:

1. Numerical release of prey species. Predators can control population growth of prey species. When big hunters disappear, their prey species may boom in numbers and degrade their habitat.

2. Behavioral release of prey species. In the presence of their predators, prey species wisely behave timidly. When large carnivores disappear, prey species may act more boldly and hence cause harm to their habitat.

3. Numerical release of mesocarnivores. Populations of smaller carnivores are often held in check by larger carnivores. When large carnivores disappear, smaller predators may have population explosions, thereby increasing their predation on other species. Soulè calls this phenomenon, midsized predators multiplying in the absence of large predators, mesopredator release.

4. Behavioral release of mesocarnivores. Smaller carnivores are very careful when larger carnivores are out and about. In the absence of large carnivores, smaller carnivores may act more boldly and prey more heavily on vulnerable species.

The elimination of large carnivores often leads to more than one of the effects. Following are three case studies [more examples are given in Rewilding North America and the other references below]:

Coyotes were removed on a Texas grassland where twelve species of burrowing rodents coexisted. Twelve months later, only Ord's kangaroo rat was found. Without predation by coyotes, it was able to outcompete and exclude the other burrowing rodents.

Sea otters were a top predator in the kelp forests of the North Pacific. When they were hunted out, sea urchin populations exploded. Because urchins graze on kelp, this critical habitat was largely lost and species using it—raptors, shorebirds, fish, and invertebrates—declined. With the return of sea otters under strict protection, sea urchin populations dropped and kelp forests began to recover—along with the diversity of species associated with kelp.

With the extermination of wolves and the near extermination of mountain lions sixty years ago in Yellowstone National Park, elk populations built up. Lacking their predators, elk grew lazy and lackadaisical, loafing in large herds in river meadows. Their behavior changed so much, it was hard to call them elk. Not only did they overgraze the grasslands, their browsing of willow shoots hampered beavers from reestablishing themselves in Yellowstone. However, with the recent reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone, elk have become elk again. They're awake! They're moving. They're looking over their shoulders. They aren't loafing in big herds in open river valleys. Wolves have changed elk behavior for the better—to a more natural set of behaviors—and thereby are bringing integrity back to the ecosystem. For example, willows are again growing along streams, and researchers expect beavers to return. In addition, wolf-killed elk are a smorgasbord for many species, ranging from grizzly bears to insect-eating songbirds. Between 1921 and 1999, there was “no significant recruitment of new stems into the aspen overstory” in Yellowstone. Oregon State researchers William Ripple and Eric Larsen write, “We hypothesize that disturbance to predator/prey relationships, especially between wolves and elk, has been a major factor in [Yellowstone National Park] aspen decline.”

As Terborgh and his co-authors point out, “Both top-down and bottom-up regulation can operate concurrently in the same system.” Nonetheless, solid research by top biologists has shown and continues to show that when large cats, canids, weasels, raptors, and other predators are removed from an ecosystem—marine, tropical, or temperate—the ecosystem is deeply wounded. Continental Conservation puts it bluntly:

The absence of top predators appears to lead inexorably to ecosystem simplification accompanied by a rush of extinctions.

Brian Miller and his colleagues write, “In short, management policies based on reducing carnivore numbers have caused, and will continue to cause, severe harm to many other organisms.”

Restoring large carnivores begins to heal ecosystems. It's that simple.

(Adapted and condensed from Rewilding North America by Dave Foreman [Chapter 7]. Copyright © 2004 by the author. Reproduced by permission of Island Press, Washington, D.C. Quotes are from the books and papers below.)
Click to expand...
 
chooch said:
Yep. I tend to agree. It's easy to think the ecosystem's in pretty good shape when you hear that condors(wolves/red kites/peregrine falcons/pumas/foxes/orchids/liverworts/whatevers) are thriving. But they're often thriving on the back of conservationists' material and energy-intensive efforts. While it's nothing compared to industrial use of environmental goods, it's still part of the same process of ignoring what's happening in some places to window-dress others.
Oh, and reintroduction: pretty, potentially good in managing some ecosystems to particular ends, feelgood, but largely a distraction.

Another good read: David Quammen: The song of the dodo. Pretty fucking depressing mind.
Click to expand...

Quammen's Monsters of God is an excellent book!
 
Shango12 said:
It died out because we wiped it out.


The Beaver is also good for rivers and areas that flood. Their dams act like sponges and soak up the excess water.:)
Click to expand...

This would only work if there were forests to support the beavers upstream. Their old habitat is gone, so you wouldn't get this dam effect occurring.
 
I don't want to see beavers or wolves or bear or other species reintroduced into Scotland. You are free to put them into England if you like, but not here.

This is what happened when somebody let coypus loose in Norfolk.

It was almost 70 years ago that several coypu escaped from a Norfolk farm at East Carleton and started spreading through the region’s waterways.

By the end of the final eradication scheme in 1988, it had cost the taxpayer millions of pounds to eliminate the coypu – originally introduced from South America for fur farming. The lost production, crop damage and impact on river and flood defences must have added tens of millions to the final bill.​
 
Fullyplumped said:
I don't want to see beavers or wolves or bear or other species reintroduced into Scotland. You are free to put them into England if you like, but not here.

This is what happened when somebody let coypus loose in Norfolk.

It was almost 70 years ago that several coypu escaped from a Norfolk farm at East Carleton and started spreading through the region’s waterways.

By the end of the final eradication scheme in 1988, it had cost the taxpayer millions of pounds to eliminate the coypu – originally introduced from South America for fur farming. The lost production, crop damage and impact on river and flood defences must have added tens of millions to the final bill.​
Click to expand...

Coypu were an alien species though innit. Its different.
 
The trial group are here at last:

Four beaver families have arrived in the UK as part of a historic plan to reintroduce the mammals to Scotland for the first time in more than 400 years.

The beavers were flown into Heathrow Airport on Thursday night from Norway.

They will spend six months in quarantine before being released in Knapdale, Argyll, on a trial basis in spring 2009.

The release will be the first-ever formal reintroduction of a native mammal into the wild in the UK.
Click to expand...


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7739437.stm


Although it is not as full & free a reintroduction as we would have liked, yet. :)
 
pogofish said:
the plan to reintroduce bravers to Scotland.
Click to expand...

:confused:

braveheart.jpg
 
Sorry... :o

Bloody cool that some progress is being made though, really hope that they manage to get a beaver population up and running. Like the idea of Norwegian families of tourist beavers flying over to Scotland as well, all bad shirts and oversized rucksacks.
 
Not much to say yet, although they are still working on it. That comedian at Alladale has set the whole idea back some way. :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

MSW
Nigel Farage - The next Prime Minister of the UK???
Replies
6
Views
467
JonTon
J
Orang Utan
US book banning fever spreads to the UK
2
Replies
34
Views
894
RichDelBoy
R
I
Petition requesting an urgent review of the LTN evaluation process
Replies
7
Views
148
edj
E
S
Change in UK Law for the elderly... Please help
Replies
23
Views
888
hash tag
hash tag
U
In the event of war, is there anybody in the UK who would make a good 'national leader'?
5 6 7 8 9
Replies
268
Views
6K
Jennaonthebeach
Jennaonthebeach
Back
Top Bottom