the NZ vs England first test thread

[agricola]

The one we miss most is Simon Jones. I hope Harmison takes 8 for 45 first innings next time up but I am getting increasingly sceptical about that happening. I wonder if an Aussie would have had so much time and opportunity to get back to form. Could an urban Bill Frindell tell me if Mcgrath, Lee or Warne have ever had a spell as dry as Harmison has had in the last 18 months.

Having said the above, it make me think, Sidebottom is bowling as well as anyone has bowled for England in recent times, Hoggy is still class, even if he had a bad match, Monty is more effective than Giles, so maybe it's Flintoff and Harmison we miss most - actually, clearly it's Freddie we miss most.

No, I dont think even Warne was that bad over 18 months (and TBH he has been poor (with one or two glimpses of his ability) since the end of the 2005 Ashes) even including his ban. McGrath is a bit of an unfair comparison (as his bowling was almost metronomic), which leaves Lee, who hasnt been as bad for as long as Harmison, but who doesnt exactly shine when he comes over here (with the ball at least). Its probably just in his head, and you have to wonder whether there is any point in trying to fix it for away tours.

 

[agricola]

I think Fletcher's big mistake was not acknowledging that the unit had to evolve, so therebye picking an unfit Giles and an out of form Harmison for the Ashes. Imagine if Monty had started the first test and Tremlett or whoever had bowled in it, instead of Harmy chucking the ball wide of 4th slip - We probably would have still lost, but we would perhaps not have been caned 5-0 and thus wouldn't be in the depression we seem to be, harping back 2 or 3 years to a bowling unit who in all liklihood will never play again, and even if they did would probably never hit the heights.

It's a hard call though, because one of the things Fletcher gave us, was an escape from the rotating door policy which was really damaging to be honest, so it seems harsh to blame him solely, when he was trying to stick by what had worked so well - showing loyalty to players who would do the job he wanted. Sadly Fletcher (who will go down as a good coach), but must take a lot of the blame for the fact the excellent England side of 2003-2005 hasn't evolved as it should have done.

The loyalty to Harmison was justified (there really wasnt anyone to come in and replace him, I am still unconvinced by Tremlett), but the King of Spain should never have been part of that team given what had happened in the summer. Was there anyone at the time who thought that Monty should not play?

 

[tangerinedream]

No, I dont think even Warne was that bad over 18 months (and TBH he has been poor (with one or two glimpses of his ability) since the end of the 2005 Ashes) even including his ban. McGrath is a bit of an unfair comparison (as his bowling was almost metronomic), which leaves Lee, who hasnt been as bad for as long as Harmison, but who doesnt exactly shine when he comes over here (with the ball at least). Its probably just in his head, and you have to wonder whether there is any point in trying to fix it for away tours.

It seems bizarre to bring him in and play him after one practice match where he didn't bowl too well, after he's done really nothing of note for ages. I don't see the point of him keeping his place (on such a tour as you say) taking wickets at 40 odd a time, when you could give a young lad a shot who would likely do no worse and then at least you might unearth a new talent.

I know Lee is a bit more streaky than Mcgrath but didn't he get dropped for a bit and then come back? - about 2003/4? Am i making this up?

 

[tangerinedream]

The loyalty to Harmison was justified (there really wasnt anyone to come in and replace him, I am still unconvinced by Tremlett), but the King of Spain should never have been part of that team given what had happened in the summer. Was there anyone at the time who thought that Monty should not play?

I suppose so, but then, surely the signs were their that his head was not right. I suppose you have to go with him and hope for the best in that situation. Tremlett was an example, could really have been anyone, I don't think anyone could have bowled as poorly as Harmison at times did in Aus. Having said that, like you say, there is also no-one else like him. I'm going to dig out his figures in Aus, hang on...

5 for 164 was his best match figures, he's had a couple of decent games since.

As a discussion point - If we can't find decent seam bowlers, should we try two spinners? Is their a spinning all rounder who could take freddies place? I can't think of one to be honest - Mind you, Colly isn't good enough to be the 3rd seamer so that's a crap plan. Between KP and Vaughn, we actually have a semi decent second spinner anyway.

I'm just jabbering now.

Gary Keedy for England!

 

[agricola]

It seems bizarre to bring him in and play him after one practice match where he didn't bowl too well, after he's done really nothing of note for ages. I don't see the point of him keeping his place (on such a tour as you say) taking wickets at 40 odd a time, when you could give a young lad a shot who would likely do no worse and then at least you might unearth a new talent.

I know Lee is a bit more streaky than Mcgrath but didn't he get dropped for a bit and then come back? - about 2003/4? Am i making this up?

He was injured, then couldnt get back in the Test side because of other peoples form- at least according to this Cricinfo article.

 

[jonnyd1978]

I predicted a draw on day 2 and England seemed to be playing towards it for 3 days.....now we look more like losing. It would be a fair result, we've done nowt positive in this game. We had a glimmer of hope yesterday but that was just because NZ were trying to force a result. Fair play to them, they've played the best cricket and deserve to win. Let's see if we can hold out for a draw!

 

[TrippyLondoner]

I predicted a draw on day 2 and England seemed to be playing towards it for 3 days.....now we look more like losing. It would be a fair result, we've done nowt positive in this game. We had a glimmer of hope yesterday but that was just because NZ were trying to force a result. Fair play to them, they've played the best cricket and deserve to win. Let's see if we can hold out for a draw!

lol, like we ever had a chance with that sort of performance.