Just that in the long term accessing books digitally is going to be far more resource-intensive than reading them in hard copy, and that throwing away large numbers of hard copy books (as lots of libraries have been doing) seems a very short-termist way of preserving knowledge for future generations.
The New Library (Cardiff)
- Thread starter Brockway
- Start date
Just that in the long term accessing books digitally is going to be far more resource-intensive than reading them in hard copy, and that throwing away large numbers of hard copy books (as lots of libraries have been doing) seems a very short-termist way of preserving knowledge for future generations.
spacemonkey
I Love Noodles
Hmm, I'm not so sure. I'd like to see some figures as it's an interesting topic. Producing huge volumes of books and delivering them across the country/globe has got to be pretty resource intensive.
Also, you're not taking into account improvements in technology. You've got the e-readers just coming onto market. They fix the page with digital ink and consume very low amounts of energy.
The wikimedia foundation have some interesting ideas about preservation of wikipedia for future generations.
That's interesting.
I'm more thinking of the preservation of existing knowledge (and already printed books), to be honest. Lots of books are discarded every day, and digitisation is often used as a reason why we don't need to preserve a paper archive.
There are social as well as ecological reasons in my book too. The digital divide is very real, both in terms of access to the web (which is crucial to accessing much digital content), and in terms of the skills needed to use technology. And there's no guarantee that the digital divide we have today along class lines will be eradicated when the older generation we have now dies. It's not just an age thing.
There also come the problems associated with ownership of digital content. I am attached to a University, so can access a wealth of scolarship and digital copies of other books and cultural output very easily. But this stuff is expensive and is greedilly protected by companies which own journals and digital archives. The Victorian public library model of open access is a far nicer one than than the intellectual property dominated web model of information access which exists today. But if I lost my job the transition from being information-flush into data poverty would be a quick one.
I'm more thinking of the preservation of existing knowledge (and already printed books), to be honest. Lots of books are discarded every day, and digitisation is often used as a reason why we don't need to preserve a paper archive.
There are social as well as ecological reasons in my book too. The digital divide is very real, both in terms of access to the web (which is crucial to accessing much digital content), and in terms of the skills needed to use technology. And there's no guarantee that the digital divide we have today along class lines will be eradicated when the older generation we have now dies. It's not just an age thing.
There also come the problems associated with ownership of digital content. I am attached to a University, so can access a wealth of scolarship and digital copies of other books and cultural output very easily. But this stuff is expensive and is greedilly protected by companies which own journals and digital archives. The Victorian public library model of open access is a far nicer one than than the intellectual property dominated web model of information access which exists today. But if I lost my job the transition from being information-flush into data poverty would be a quick one.
this may be slightly biased because it is only comparing books to e-readers.. and the the type of book production is limited in scope
http://css.snre.umich.edu/css_doc/CSS03-04.pdf
http://css.snre.umich.edu/css_doc/CSS03-04.pdf
You're right, of course. I've heard a lot about the negative impacts of the paper book production process, and it sucks. But I'm mainly talking about the importance of preserving what printed books we've got and not siply binning them, which happens a lot.
Plus, environmental impacts have to be considered in their social context, and we live in severely digitally divided nation in lots of ways (see above post).
Plus, environmental impacts have to be considered in their social context, and we live in severely digitally divided nation in lots of ways (see above post).
Ben Bore
Member
Apart from the embarrassing giant 'best-sellers' on the outside, i actually quite liked the temporary library on Callaghans Square - it was certainly an improvement on the old New Library and was nice and spacious.
Having been on a quick visit to the new New Library, it feels very crammed. While I also like the views from it (which will be even nicer once the building site is no more), I'm not that impressed with the 'open well' design.
It's a waste of premium floor space - which could have been used to store book (anyone remember them?), also, if you're on the fifth floor, all the noise carried up.
Self-service returns
The self-service system for returning books didn't impress me either. A member of staff 'guded; me to one of the machines after I crazily thought of returnign me book over the counter. I told her I had fines to pay and explained I had to stick the book in the machine, then I'd get a receipt, which I then take to the counter to pay my fine.
Only it didn't show that I owed a fine. Luckily I'm an honest person and payed anyway.
Paying of fines
I also don't think it's sensible that people can opt to pay the fine there and then or build fines up. It' will only cause grief for staff later on when someone comes in wanting to borrow books, and is told he she has a couple of quid fines from previous borrowings which must be paid first.
Having been on a quick visit to the new New Library, it feels very crammed. While I also like the views from it (which will be even nicer once the building site is no more), I'm not that impressed with the 'open well' design.
It's a waste of premium floor space - which could have been used to store book (anyone remember them?), also, if you're on the fifth floor, all the noise carried up.
Self-service returns
The self-service system for returning books didn't impress me either. A member of staff 'guded; me to one of the machines after I crazily thought of returnign me book over the counter. I told her I had fines to pay and explained I had to stick the book in the machine, then I'd get a receipt, which I then take to the counter to pay my fine.
Only it didn't show that I owed a fine. Luckily I'm an honest person and payed anyway.
Paying of fines
I also don't think it's sensible that people can opt to pay the fine there and then or build fines up. It' will only cause grief for staff later on when someone comes in wanting to borrow books, and is told he she has a couple of quid fines from previous borrowings which must be paid first.
penderyn2000
unapologetic socialist
Agree with Ben Bore - the library is claustrophobic, and all the more so for the many people who suffer from vertigo. Not a welcoming place at all, especially when you come straight in to a load of machines and security gates. Children's section is poky and very disappointing, apart from the window area. Couldn't help but notice they only had three books by Cardiff's no 1 children's novelist, but that's another matter!
I hanker after Nottingham library, where people walked straight in off the main street into books, displays and noticeboards, where there was a cafe always full of the buzz of pupils and students, and where you didn't feel you were likely to fall fifty feet to your death if you took a wrong turning.
Are all today's architects show-off assholes who fail to understand the first thing about conviviality? Cardiff is getting more faceless and corporate by the day.
I hanker after Nottingham library, where people walked straight in off the main street into books, displays and noticeboards, where there was a cafe always full of the buzz of pupils and students, and where you didn't feel you were likely to fall fifty feet to your death if you took a wrong turning.
Are all today's architects show-off assholes who fail to understand the first thing about conviviality? Cardiff is getting more faceless and corporate by the day.
I don't think it's claustrophobic at all - it's open plan. I take your point about vertigo, though. No, the only thing that I don't like about the new new library is the lack of a quiet study area. You are allowed to be as noisy as you want, make calls on your mobile etc, which is cool and everything but I like a bit of silence when I'm researching. One good thing: there are chairs near the windows - reminiscent of sun-loungers - which encourage people to just sit and look out of the window and possibly nod off in the sunshine, which I think is quite a nice touch.
Oh, and I don't like the supermarket self-service either - that's a job-cutting measure if ever I've seen one.
penderyn2000
unapologetic socialist
Aren't all libraries open plan, i.e. not divided into rooms? What makes it claustrophobic for me is that there's no rest for the eyes.
agree 100%
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Col_Buendia
sort code
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Col_Buendia
sort code
Col_Buendia
sort code
Don't agree that it is claustrophobic, but I reckon that's probably a matter of taste, so no point arguing the toss about that. But now you mention it, the entrance really sucks - you come in off the street and are immediately met with an anti-climax: a forest of security machines (I immediately thought it was "airport style security" for Cardiff books when I went in), which once you negotiate them, an escalator. Jeez... did they miss the (old) New Library so much that they felt they needed to forgo the chance of having a street level? How curious...
penderyn2000
unapologetic socialist
That's a rather odd definition of claustrophobic. No, not all libraries are open plan - some of the Cardiff university libraries have lots of little rooms.
jannerboyuk
...just kids gone wild.
had my first trip to the new library today. was ok i suppose, chairs were nice, coffee at a quid a throw not so much. just seems like a few more books would be nice but maybe thats just me.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
When you say a coffee at a quid a throw, do you mean that they had a cafe or that a coffee machine was ripping you off? (One might always take ones books to the Hayes Tea Island up the road)
I haven't been to the library much since I'm still owing a £25 fine! They do let you pay it back in installments apparently.
I haven't been to the library much since I'm still owing a £25 fine! They do let you pay it back in installments apparently.
jannerboyuk
...just kids gone wild.
coffee machine. i dont take books out really so hayes wont work for me.
editor
hiraethified
We visited the library on the weekend. I think it's fantastic - a real credit to the city.
http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/cardiff-library-wales.html
http://www.urban75.org/photos/wales/cardiff-library-wales.html
It has had only a limited success in preventing heat gain in the summer. Apparently a lot of the offices and meeting rooms have got uncomfortably hot over the last few months.
Air-con is not an option, and even lots of fans everywhere would probably jeopardise the building's eco certification. Perhaps the architects and Cardiff council should have incorporated some sort of underground heat-exchange pump (as they've got at the Assembly building) - although it probably wouldn't have left much change out of half a million quid.
The challenge of designing an eco-friendly and user-friendly high rise building is a very complex one..maybe the whole thing should have been underground?
Riklet
procrastinación
I think it's fucking great as a library! Even got some revision done there for my exams a few months ago, whilst watching the rooftops and fantasising about absailing down the side, or sitting on the roof.
I guess i'm the only one who noticed if someone's sitting in those red chairs with the balls, you can pull the ball back and let it wham....
I guess i'm the only one who noticed if someone's sitting in those red chairs with the balls, you can pull the ball back and let it wham....
Some homeless guy went in for a kip but he had a bit of a major lice infection, poor bugger. Same happened in Canton library.
They are closing it again today, as he came in again! Evacuating the building using the fire alarm system.
Bit of an access dilemma for any public building, but especially for a library. Time for Social services to try and get this guy some assistance, I think.
They are closing it again today, as he came in again! Evacuating the building using the fire alarm system.
Bit of an access dilemma for any public building, but especially for a library. Time for Social services to try and get this guy some assistance, I think.
