The Near Death Experience.
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weltweit
Well-Known Member
I think you need to define Near Death Experience more.
Is it :
When you die on the operating table but are then resusitated?
or
When you are near to death in another way...
For example I was in a traffic accident and thought with clear certainty that I was about to die. It was a quite strange experience as time seemed to stand still, anyhow and obviously I survived but for a moment (the first and last time this has ocurred to me) I was certain my death was imminent.
Is it :
When you die on the operating table but are then resusitated?
or
When you are near to death in another way...
For example I was in a traffic accident and thought with clear certainty that I was about to die. It was a quite strange experience as time seemed to stand still, anyhow and obviously I survived but for a moment (the first and last time this has ocurred to me) I was certain my death was imminent.
xes
F.O.A.D
I think the NDE that will be researched is when the all brain activity stops. But the person is brough back only to say that their mind was still active,and left the body/through the tunnel/over the water/up the road (that bit seems to be changable,prehaps cos it's nothing but a mear hallucination,or what your culture expects,is what happens)
There are quite a few cases where the EEG has stopped registering any brain activity,yet people still come back and say they crossed over to the spirit world.(not only that,but they sometimes come back with messages of love and stuff)
And the life review,that is something that crops up over and over again in NDEs,something that can't be ignored if it's to be taken seriously.
There are quite a few cases where the EEG has stopped registering any brain activity,yet people still come back and say they crossed over to the spirit world.(not only that,but they sometimes come back with messages of love and stuff)
And the life review,that is something that crops up over and over again in NDEs,something that can't be ignored if it's to be taken seriously.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I am familiar with people saying that they have been floating above their bodies in a disconnected way and that they then move towards a light at which point they are resucitated.
Oh
When I was about to die in a head on motorcycle crash with a car, my brain went into overdrive and checked all my memories in a search for something that could save me, it seemed like time stood still as I searched for something however small that could save me and then in the nick of time I found something and it did save me.
xes
F.O.A.D
I once read something,and as I've got an open mind (some might say too open,but i don't) I took it on board. It was about dreams (in this theory,dreams are held in the astral/spirit world and are lessons the subconsious teaches itself in how to handle certain situations that your life,as it is going,could throw up,as the sub concsious knows what could happen in your life,with how your life is going....apparently...because your "you/I am" never sleeps) Basicly,it used someone in a car crash,or potential car crash as an example. It said (something along the lines of) Said person is about to have a crash,time slows (from perception) as the brain searches for what to do next,as it's been there before in dreams. It looks at every possible outcome and acts in the best way it can,using your "instinct" as a way to carry it out.
If I can find a link to that,I'll stick it up
(at work at the moment,might not be till after 5) and to the "oh" in your post,a little reading for you that mentions EEG,to be honest,this is just from a quick google,I've not read it. But it's bound to have a little about what I was trying to say) http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/dutch_study.html
this is a subject that fascinates the fucking pants off me.
mattie
missing in inaction
I heard this on R4 last week. They're going to place images in places that can only be seen from above.
For fuck's sake.
I know we should test all hypotheses but the idea that something physically floats above the body isn't one. Is this study sponsored by the creationists or something?
xes
F.O.A.D
Um,hows about you do a little research into the countless thousands of cases where people describe doing just that. Seeing things that they couldn't have possibly seen (like trainers on high window ledges) before you wade in with the ffs attitude.
This is one of the most important questions ever,is there life after death. And it DOES deserve full study.
Kuso
drinking like george best, gettin less women
What I'd have said. Who is it reckons DMT goes a long way to explaining alien abductions?
fogbat
The Talibum
xes
F.O.A.D
can't be done yet,but that doesn't meean it isn't (or that is it,obviously) Don't be nit picky.
If you need to be told what you can believe in by a scientist,then all power to you.
Evidence IS there to show that you live on aftter death. Just because it's not something they can explain,or film,or record properly,it doesn't mean that it isn't happeneing. Overwhealming simularities in thousands on cases speaks for itslef IMO. But if you need some bod in a suit to go "yep,there's an afterlife" then you're going to be waiting a long time. Make your own mind up,do your own research.
If you need to be told what you can believe in by a scientist,then all power to you.
Evidence IS there to show that you live on aftter death. Just because it's not something they can explain,or film,or record properly,it doesn't mean that it isn't happeneing. Overwhealming simularities in thousands on cases speaks for itslef IMO. But if you need some bod in a suit to go "yep,there's an afterlife" then you're going to be waiting a long time. Make your own mind up,do your own research.
There is clear evidence though of what happens when particular brain areas die (after a stroke for example) or are destroyed, but the person suffering the injury carries on living.
For example, a few people have suffered lasting and selective loss of consciousness for one half of the visual field. This doesn't mean that they are blind to one side, but that one side of visual space simply doesn't exist at all for them. If these people are given a drawing of a circle, and asked to pencil in numbers 1-12 to make it into a clock face, they will cram all the numbers onto the half they are conscious of. They leave the other half of the circle blank.
So consciousness needs an intact, working brain to exist.
For example, a few people have suffered lasting and selective loss of consciousness for one half of the visual field. This doesn't mean that they are blind to one side, but that one side of visual space simply doesn't exist at all for them. If these people are given a drawing of a circle, and asked to pencil in numbers 1-12 to make it into a clock face, they will cram all the numbers onto the half they are conscious of. They leave the other half of the circle blank.
So consciousness needs an intact, working brain to exist.
xes
F.O.A.D
that may be true to the extent of "exist" in a way that we can measure it. But lets go back the other way,when we're being constructed in the womb. Our heart starts beating before the brain is "turned on" (or even there,I'm not sure on that) Where does that consciousness come from? Does it just spark into existance from nothing? Or does it come from something more ordered. What you're willing to believe,will I suppose determin what you're willing to believe about the death end of things.
End of the day,once that brain is turned off,there is nothing to measure,so you have to go by accounts of people who's brain machines at the hospital came up blank,yet they still came back with magnificant stories of beings of light,and life reviews in the flash of a second. Sounds like the wildest fantasy,but it could well be true. Let's hope that these upcoming studies yield some good results.
Your last sentence answers your question. Consciousness doesn't come from nothing, but from the activities of particular brain systems which have developed sufficiently to begin working. Just as is the case with other bodily processes which need their own organs and cell types to function - like your example of the heart beginning to beat.
Read through the link you included in your OP, and found this in the section on the Oxygen-Starved Brain theory of near-death experiences:
The lack of oxygen theory might well only provide part of the answer (if any), but the chaotic and fearful nature of hallucinations under common conditions of oxygen-deprivation might result from high levels of carbon dioxide. Presumably this is the case in most instances of suffocation.
It's the high levels of carbon dioxide which are unpleasant to experience, not the lack of oxygen per se. Oxygen deprivation in a situation where carbon dioxide levels don't build up (eg breathing a nitrogen-only atmosphere) produces euphoria.
Badger Kitten
oof
Dying brain hyposthesis for the obvious rational WIN.
All other stuff - time slowing down, sudden clarity, sensation of leaving body etc - as experienced by people having accidents but not actually dying, just thinking they are going to die = physiological manifestations of extreme shock.
See this lady, Sue Blackmore in Grauniad
I had a NDE, and am sure it was a brain/body reaction to severe shock, bloodloss, nothing mystical. It just seems more logical and rational than any other explanation.
It was a sense of extreme detachment - numbness, peace, calm, extreme tiredness - just wanting to just let go and fall into oblivion, with a clear sense of looking down on my body.
All other stuff - time slowing down, sudden clarity, sensation of leaving body etc - as experienced by people having accidents but not actually dying, just thinking they are going to die = physiological manifestations of extreme shock.
See this lady, Sue Blackmore in Grauniad
I had a NDE, and am sure it was a brain/body reaction to severe shock, bloodloss, nothing mystical. It just seems more logical and rational than any other explanation.
It was a sense of extreme detachment - numbness, peace, calm, extreme tiredness - just wanting to just let go and fall into oblivion, with a clear sense of looking down on my body.
xes
F.O.A.D
Now you see,I don't think there's anything mystical about it. And it seems more logical and rational to me,to think that your "you" goes back to set up the next life,or float about rattling chains,or possessing Derek Acorah for the lulz. I can't imagine just turning off,I know it's not true,I don't know how i know,I just kind of "do".
jiggajagga
Judge_Mental
Don't know about near death at all but when a car came out of a side street at 40 mph and slammed into me the 1 sec or so the accident must have taken seemed like an eternity to me. I did seem to get a sense of detachment though, as if I was watching the accident from an outer viewpoint. Perhaps it is protection from severe shock.
xes
F.O.A.D
Anyone who wants to "get to the other side" can do so without dying anyway. Astral travelling,or Out of Body Experiences can be learnt. I've done a little reading on the subject,and when my life's in a bit better order (apparently you have to have all yer shnizniss sorted out) I'm jumping right on that bad boy. I've tried a few times,and I can get close,I can feel that. Fear holds you back.
and don't worry,if and when I ever do this,you lot will be the first I tell to rip the piss out of me
and don't worry,if and when I ever do this,you lot will be the first I tell to rip the piss out of me
fogbat
The Talibum
Prove that it isn't!
That's not how it works, sorry
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
HTH, etc.
fogbat
The Talibum
Anyone who wants to "get to the other side" can do so without dying anyway. Astral travelling,or Out of Body Experiences can be learnt. I've done a little reading on the subject,and when my life's in a bit better order (apparently you have to have all yer shnizniss sorted out) I'm jumping right on that bad boy. I've tried a few times,and I can get close,I can feel that. Fear holds you back.
and don't worry,if and when I ever do this,you lot will be the first I tell to rip the piss out of me
I've already started showering in a pair of swimming trunks.
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