The myth of "humane slaughter".

[kavenism]

You daft ranting muppet, the human part of humane refers to the behaviour/motivations/actions of the humans doing the killing not the animals.

Well more or less, at least in the actions sense, but it does imply the existance of an other. For example in the legal term “Cruel and inhumane treatment” it is the status of the subject being treated that the term human applies to. If it were otherwise it would be possible to describe a situation where an inhumane person treated someone else humanly. In law this has no sense.

In law there is no status afforded to the possibility of treating oneself inhumanly, it is a purely intersubjective term that predicates itself on the presence of at least two human beings. I.e there are only inhumane acts, not inhumane people.

 

[butchersapron]

Yes - but the the term humanely refers here to commonly agreed and accepted standards defined by humans, to those of society and custom and law - that's the active intersubjectivity at play here, human to human - the inter-subjective recognition amongst humans of what consitutes humane behaviour, not between the human and the animal. It doesn't require the animal to recognise the behaviour as humane or for humans to recognise the animal as human. The animal doesn't enter into it.

 

[joustmaster]

with out these slaughter houses, even the bad ones, it would be a lot worse.. people like me all pissed off and hungry trying to stab a cow to death with a half blunt kitchen knife cos there isn't a big factory to do it.

 

[kavenism]

Yes - but the the term humanely refers here to commonly agreed and accepted standards defined by humans, to those of society and custom and law - that's the active intersubjectivity at play here, human to human - the inter-subjective recognition amongst humans of what consitutes humane behaviour, not between the human and the animal. It doesn't require the animal to recognise the behaviour as humane or for humans to recognise the animal as human. The animal doesn't enter into it.

Yeah I agree, that not what I was suggesting. I just wanted to clarify that it is an intersubjective determination and not something that can be applied in the individual sense. So it looks like we all are in agreement that in the most recognised understanding of the term it is not possible for a person to treat an animal inhumanly (which is also where the law stand on this). The trouble comes as we all know when we try to work out what inhumane treatment actually is for us. I believe Donald Rumsfeld's definition is quite indeterminate, at least if you're of the non big Mac munching variety. Loves his dogs though.

 

[Fullyplumped]

Yeah I agree, that not what I was suggesting. I just wanted to clarify that it is an intersubjective determination and not something that can be applied in the individual sense.

Would it be possible to write that without using words like "intersubjective?" It's the second time I think you've used it. I don't know what it means and I bet hardly anyone else does.

 

[moon23]

Animal Snuff video, have you not watched a spider catch a fly? Nature is evil.

 

[kavenism]

Would it be possible to write that without using words like "intersubjective?" It's the second time I think you've used it. I don't know what it means and I bet hardly anyone else does.

Buy a dictionary. Its a fairly self explanitary word anyway; Inter (between x and x) Subject (humans...yeah ok Subject is I guess a technical term in this sense)
Broadly it means; between human beings

 

[Crispy]

The slaughtering process is relatively quick. Compared to the lifetime of the animal, it's vanishingly quick. I'd rather my meat lived a comfortable happy life followed by 30 seconds of agony, than a life stuck in a pen too small to turn round in followed by a soothing slip into peace via opiates. IYSWIM

 

[Spymaster]

Buy a dictionary. Its a fairly self explanitary word anyway; Inter (between x and x) Subject (humans...yeah ok Subject is I guess a technical term in this sense)
Broadly it means; between human beings

It's still a crap word though. 'Subjective' would've been fine in this context.

 

[Nigel]

Meat Industry & Exploitation Of Developing World

Although this video shows the problem of an unpleaseant and possibly distasteful process in slaughting animals pus mass production and consumerism both for the poor little animals and the workers, a more convincing argument for becoming vegetarian would be its effect on the developing/third world, with exports of cash crops to feed animals in Rich Industrialised countries. That and the way the whole industry manifests itself say in South America, pushing small farmers off the land, destitution of Rain forests and other land.
http://www.geocities.com/carbonomics/MCsppub/11sp12/11sp12b.html

 

[moon23]

Although this video shows the problem of an unpleaseant and possibly distasteful process in slaughting animals pus mass production and consumerism both for the poor little animals and the workers, a more convincing argument for becoming vegetarian would be its effect on the developing/third world, with exports of cash crops to feed animals in Rich Industrialised countries. That and the way the whole industry manifests itself say in South America, pushing small farmers off the land, destitution of Rain forests and other land.
http://www.geocities.com/carbonomics/MCsppub/11sp12/11sp12b.html

I think a far more realistic aim would be to get people to reduce their meat consumption. In order for that to happen vegetarian food needs to be promoted for it's own benifets for which there are many. If I lived in gujarat i'd happily be vegetarian as their food is amazing. We have been brought up on a meat diet, so we need a new wave of British vegetarian cooking.

A Jamie Oliver of Vegetables who isn't moralizing or ramming things down people throats but trying to make it easier for people to eat nice food. That may well be cheaper too!

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

what exactly is "the myth of humane slaughter"

why is humane slaughter a myth?

even if many places don't follow regulations that doesn't mean that nobody does

 

[Nigel]

I think a far more realistic aim would be to get people to reduce their meat consumption. In order for that to happen vegetarian food needs to be promoted for it's own benifets for which there are many. If I lived in gujarat i'd happily be vegetarian as their food is amazing. We have been brought up on a meat diet, so we need a new wave of British vegetarian cooking.

A Jamie Oliver of Vegetables who isn't moralizing or ramming things down people throats but trying to make it easier for people to eat nice food. That may well be cheaper too!

I was was strict vegetarian clodse to vegan for about five or six years, giving it up because it made me physically too weak to d the work I was doing.

I try to eat less meat, but becoming strict vege totally would be impossible!

 

[kavenism]

It's still a crap word though. 'Subjective' would've been fine in this context.

Then it wouldn’t have the inter bit - which is quite important in this case - then would it? Duh. The English language really isn’t that hard to understand despite the displays of big-brother contestants to the contrary.

 

[tar1984]

I do feel a bit sorry for those animals, but fuck it.

 

[quimcunx]

lol by that logic they should give guided tours of morticians, morgues and undertakers. Yet my step brother and his family have been undertakers for years and have never done so, does this mean theres something wrong with what they do?

I would be interested in joining a tour of a morgue should they decide to expand their business.

 

[tar1984]

It's not the same - you don't kill the people in a mourge.

 

[scawenb]

As an ex-vegetarian of 15 years I agree with the horrors of industial slaughter-houses to animals (and often to workers).

but I do believe in humane slaughter. I've just killed two of my cockerels. Taken late at night (chicken go into a trance-like state in the dark) held upside-down to add to the passivity and then take it a short distance and pull it neck to sever the wind pipe then I remove the head to allow it to bleed.

I'm about to take off my first lot of sheep. As there is no longer a mobile slaughter unit in Herefordshire I will drive them early in the morning in a small number to my local family-run butchers who have a slaughter-house behind where I will be able to witness all the process as well as having an indepent vet monitoring them.

But it is more and more difficult for small local accountable slaughter-houses to survive as the legislation is designed for the big inhuman multinationals who have completely removed and hidden the connection between the pretty animals we see in the fields (though their's are rarely outdoors) and the plastic wrapped unhealthy tasteless products they sell in their supermarkets.

From the point of view of the vegetarians and vegans - I have also had to squish my caterpillars on the veg and poison the rats in the garden. Their ethical veg also is produced by killing in a far less humane and supervised manner.

We have become more and more alienated from the means of production of the food we eat which allows the powerful manufactures to get away withbad practice as we niether know or care.

 

[ViolentPanda]

...destitution of Rain forests and other land.

What, some fucker has nicked all their money and worldly goods?

Do us all a favour and check a dictionary before using the new word you learned down the pub, eh?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It's natural innit. Cos chimp eat dead stuff or something.

http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/f/CAMPAIGNS/blog//4//?be_id=211

I've only watched three minutes. It's pretty stupid.

I've worked in a slaughterhouse. One thing you don't do, is have a bunch of animals with you in a little pen, when you're trying to kill one of them.

Why? Because it's dangerous. The animals can get pretty crazy once they realize what's going on, and even with a sheep, I wouldn't want to be turning my back with other sheep in the pen, while I'm dispatching one of their buddies over in the corner.

Also, why the family of sheep all in there?

Ffs.

 

[jonajuna]

(animal aid have) Stopped pig racing events at a country fair

fucking out of order, will have to go back to just spit roasting the feckers instead

 

[Nigel]

What, some fucker has nicked all their money and worldly goods?

Do us all a favour and check a dictionary before using the new word you learned down the pub, eh?

The rain forests would be pretty destitute if they were cut down for grazing land
Why don't you try using a dictionary!
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/destitute

 

[frogwoman]

I hate those videos, emotional blackmail at its purest ffs.

 

[frogwoman]

The problem is also that stuff like that allows the rest of the meat industry to point out that the people making those videos are loonies and therefore everything is fine. A bit like conspiracy theories

 

[frogwoman]

What also really hacks me off is when PETA or someone go to a lab and find animals being mistreated or find some sadistic fucker putting nails into a kitten, and then they parade it around as though this is what happens in all vivisection labs, all the time. I think organisations like that deliberately go to great lengths to find the most extreme examples of animal cruelty as way of justifying their existence.