the much needed rave/techno/house fascism thread

[Supine]

Not sure about specific tunes but there is definitely some fascism for digital dj's in the deep house scene.

Vinyl purists can

 

[ManchesterBeth]

vinyl purists are morons. They cannot prove any of their claims and resort to well i like looking at my vinyl, i like holding it, it feels special to me. The object and not the music carries meaning then? good to know.

 

[Fez909]

Not sure about specific tunes but there is definitely some fascism for digital dj's in the deep house scene.

Vinyl purists can

The best answer to that is to show them the DJ EZ 3hr Boiler Room. He uses digital for the first half, then vinyl for the second. Until the vinyl guys can do what he does with digital then their whining means nothing. A proper DJ is a proper DJ, no matter the medium.

 

[stethoscope]

I like Up All Night, RIP, and all of Shades of Rhythms output

 

[stethoscope]

There's not much I don't like really. Not keen on clownstep, techstep doesn't do much for me, and minimal I find a bit boring as genre's. But, I can usually find something I like even then.

 

[ManchesterBeth]

Yeah rip's a tune stethoscope, no idea how ska doesn't like the breaks in that one.

 

[Ted Striker]

vinyl purists are morons. They cannot prove any of their claims and resort to well i like looking at my vinyl, i like holding it, it feels special to me. The object and not the music carries meaning then? good to know.

How can you prove an opinion? I've always been sympathetic to vinyl purists tbh (despite not knowing one end from a 12" from the other)...Music would be nothing without a bit of drama, history, and the unprovable je ne sais quoi about the emotion of it all. An opinion probably less prevalent in techno circles, I concede

It has always boiled down to 2 main points:
1. Next time you're browsing MP3's, stick £12 in a tin each time you hear one you want to keep. You will either become poor or your collection will rise infinitely in quality and you'll treasure them much more

2. SS Giles puts it best http://www.residentadvisor.net/podcast-episode.aspx?id=160

Vinyl is still far superior to me, culturally / historically, aesthetically and sound-wise. I definitely feel like I am part of a dying breed, but frankly I am happy to drag my heavy bag all over the place (despite airlines losing it on four different occasions last year—once for over a month). I just feel CD's and music files are so disposable. I guess I am a romantic, nostalgic person, but I make no apologies for it. I still write all my gigs in a diary on paper and although I don't use it so often I still like to write with a cartridge pen believe it or not!

I love vinyl and all that it stands for. Going to shops, talking shit about music, sharing ideas, discussing music face to face, holding the vinyl, the artwork. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a massive problem with downloading or the net but it's a totally different world which I don't care for as much. I would far rather jump on the bus and spend half a day or usually more in record shops than jump online and download some tracks (even though I really don't have the time). There is less social interaction and the interaction on the net I have to say on message boards, blogs whatever are so often negative rather than positive.

 

[stethoscope]

rip/pussyclat/gunshut/overpgrogrammedbreaks/yawn

Altogether now...

"Pussy get a coffin then dem soon get the wreath"

 

[Ted Striker]

The best answer to that is to show them the DJ EZ 3hr Boiler Room. He uses digital for the first half, then vinyl for the second. Until the vinyl guys can do what he does with digital then their whining means nothing. A proper DJ is a proper DJ, no matter the medium.

Whilst no one loves 'that era' EZ (tbh I saw him on Saturday (awful) and his EM leaves me cold I fear a change, though a conversation for another thread) more than me, by hour 3 he fucks way too much with otherwise great tunes and its to everyone's benefit he switches to vinyl. And I don't care what you say, Make It Funky played straight from the tip would sound worse from a CD

 

[Ted Striker]

Tunes that sound like pop songs but that have been made with a credible/underground(ish) producer. Especially when they're played at the end of a set like it's the most epic climax ever and everyone is all hands in the air, singing along smiling nonsense. Meh!

Slam - Lifetimes

Spoiler

Xpress-2 - Lazy

Spoiler

etc etc.

Admittedly I don't hear this sort of thing, well, ever...now that I've stopped going to shit clubs. But at the time they used to piss me off. I preferred the Paul Damage approach to ending a set by progressively playing harder and harder tunes then just switching off.

Radio killed Lazy (see also, Modjo - Lady). If you weren't there before it 'broke' (nor danced on the bar in Ministry 19 years old wearing sunglasses) you will never understand the 'out of nowhere' appeal. Both tunes originally provided genuine dancefloor goosebump moments, quite impossible though it is to believe now.

Slam lifetimes is a funny one. I have a whopping love for it, though have no idea where it fits other than on an MP3 player.

 

[Ted Striker]

LCD and most other electronic music makers who like to see themselves as proper bands who do proper albums

They get a lifetime pass for All My Friends. I quite like the fact LCD (tunes) go nowhere near a dance floor (IME) and indeed straddle the 'electronic music played live' better than anyone IMO.

 

[Ted Striker]

What I really can't stand is piano vamped tunes at the end of a deep house/NYE garage set. Everything's great, we're gonna go home and fuck, or at least I want to believe that I'll hook up with a girl at the end of the night, or I'll delude myself, whatever, I'm buzzing, really fulfilling night of soulful grooves, and then...

Let meeee beeee your fantaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasy!

Shut up that has ever happened (Baby D, that is)

Either way, an exception to the rule. Fair play you can smell the South London cocaine behind his every performance, but the guy can bring it every now and then...Great finish to this one (even if the rest of it is pretty forgettable)

 

[stethoscope]

vinyl purists are morons. They cannot prove any of their claims and resort to well i like looking at my vinyl, i like holding it, it feels special to me. The object and not the music carries meaning then? good to know.

Obviously, the music is always the most important thing, but I don't know, having shopped for many years during the 'golden years' of rave/hardcore/jungle/garage, there is something about vinyl which I don't think should be wholly dismissed. It's wrapped up in not just the object (although I have still fond love over them - and not just the record but also the sleeves, label artworks), but the whole memories of hearing tunes for the first time at a rave or on radio, waving the arms over the counter for the promo's when the distributor walked through the doors at my local record shops, chasing certain copies/presses of tunes for years, the feeling I used to get playing vinyl out at events years ago. I can often pinpoint when/where I bought a piece of vinyl, or where I first heard it. I'd be hard pushed to tell you when I bought a CD or downloaded a WAV/MP3.

That said, I've sold most of my collection now but kept the rips on CDs and also still have a pretty extensive collection of CD dance comps/albums. My only criticism really is that a lot of the dance (especially jungle/drum 'n' bass) comps either have crudely edited mixes on there, and also sometimes they just don't sound like the vinyl originals (mastered too loudly, light on the low end, for example). My other irritation (and not generally towards DJ's playing from CD or computer these days) is those fucking ridiculous hyper-speed rewinds that some DJs do on them! They sound shit!

Wouldn't say I'm a vinyl purist, though. It's all about dubplates anyway (joke!)

 

[passenger]

Cheer up people

 

[stethoscope]

And I like piano rave, and happy hardcore (at least pre-99 anyway)

 

[tendril]

This:



I went to an oldskool night up in Camden about 10 years ago and every fucking DJ played it. What utter shite

 

[passenger]

not great, but not shit

 

[stethoscope]

You like Dread Bass though ska invita right?

Funny, although I don't mind it, I think Dred Bass is a fairly weak tune actually Running In Your Family was a much better Dead Dred tune but only got as far as promo.

 

[tendril]

vinyl purists are morons. They cannot prove any of their claims and resort to well i like looking at my vinyl, i like holding it, it feels special to me. The object and not the music carries meaning then? good to know.

There is a very good argument as to why vinyl can be better and it is all to do with ones and zeros (or the lack of them).

A vinyl record has a waveform cut into it. It is an exact analogue of the original music, the key point being that it is continuously physically variable . This is true for older music that was recorded in an analogue studio and doesn't hold true for music produced in a digital studio. The best example I can give of this is tracing a contour using a contour scribe as opposed to using a contour gauge:

as opposed to

As you can see, the scribe replicates the contour exactly whilst the gauge does it approximately, the end of each part of the gauge is square. This is similar to digitally recorded music that has to (by the nature of the digital medium) cut off at 1 or 0.

A waveform is not made up of 1s and 0s

So whilst it may not be evident to the human ear, the digital music is not complete, but for most practical purposes it is good enough. However, play a low bit rate mp3 through a 25K rig and you will notice the difference.

Also, from a purist perspective, a vinyl record that was pressed using an original recording from an analogue studio faithfully reproduces the sounds and if this is, say, Jimi Hendrix, then it could be argued that it is an exact copy of his voice, as though he is there in the room with you. This is not the case for a digital copy of Along The Watchtower.

Plus it looks and feels good, it is easy to see where the breakdowns are, it has kudos and it shows up computer DJs as being pretenders.....

 

[passenger]

Funny, although I don't mind it, I think Dred Bass is a fairly weak tune actually Running In Your Family was a much better Dead Dred tune but only got as far as promo.

what a tune

 

[stethoscope]

Can I just declare here, I really hate this!

 

[Boycey]

that's better than any set i've seen him play, largely on account of him not being allowed a mic. anyhow, this seems appropriate:

 

[stethoscope]

This:



I went to an oldskool night up in Camden about 10 years ago and every fucking DJ played it. What utter shite

Yeah, I think that was weak tune even when it came out. At least, for somebody of the might of SUAD who I've got incredible amounts of love for.

 

[stethoscope]

...

 

[passenger]

this thread should be sponsored by valium

 

[sim667]

Inspired by Fez909 calling my purist tastes in house music 'fascist', post up tunes that sound utterly repellent to you at a rave and compell you to leave/go out for a cigarette.

I'll start off with this one

Spoiler: John B - Up All night

Possibly one of the worst tunes in the history of dnb that actually gets acolade after accolade from the community. Awful, cheesy vocal.

I had literally forgotten about this tune.....

I am going to buy it.

Thanks..... I really liked the darker drum and bass of this era, but didn't mix, so never bought any tunes and now I can't remember the ones I liked

 

[sim667]

You can knock skream, but he did make some wicked tunes, he's not really my taste anymore, but when I first started hearing dubstep skream always had some fantastic beats.

 

[souljacker]

Yeah, I think that was weak tune even when it came out. At least, for somebody of the might of SUAD who I've got incredible amounts of love for.

Totally bizarre choice of record when you consider they did Green Man shortly before.

 

[pocketscience]

I had literally forgotten about this tune.....

I am going to buy it.

Thanks..... I really liked the darker drum and bass of this era, but didn't mix, so never bought any tunes and now I can't remember the ones I liked

This Sketch & Code tune mixes in well with All Night. Similar stabs and better vocals IMO (still cheesy tho)


http://www.discogs.com/Sketch-And-Code-Blinded-Falling/master/502263

tbf "falling"'s still a wicked tune on that 12" (eta: actually they're all still good imo):

 

[ManchesterBeth]

There is a very good argument as to why vinyl can be better and it is all to do with ones and zeros (or the lack of them).

A vinyl record has a waveform cut into it. It is an exact analogue of the original music, the key point being that it is continuously physically variable . This is true for older music that was recorded in an analogue studio and doesn't hold true for music produced in a digital studio. The best example I can give of this is tracing a contour using a contour scribe as opposed to using a contour gauge:

View attachment 71018 as opposed to View attachment 71019

As you can see, the scribe replicates the contour exactly whilst the gauge does it approximately, the end of each part of the gauge is square. This is similar to digitally recorded music that has to (by the nature of the digital medium) cut off at 1 or 0.

A waveform is not made up of 1s and 0s

So whilst it may not be evident to the human ear, the digital music is not complete, but for most practical purposes it is good enough. However, play a low bit rate mp3 through a 25K rig and you will notice the difference.

Also, from a purist perspective, a vinyl record that was pressed using an original recording from an analogue studio faithfully reproduces the sounds and if this is, say, Jimi Hendrix, then it could be argued that it is an exact copy of his voice, as though he is there in the room with you. This is not the case for a digital copy of Along The Watchtower.

Plus it looks and feels good, it is easy to see where the breakdowns are, it has kudos and it shows up computer DJs as being pretenders.....

This doesn't apply to any of the music in this thread though. I'd agree with you for most stuff made before 1975 or so but for electronic music it's utterly pointless.

Also, knowing where the breakdowns by looking at a tune is cheating. Memorise the bar structure of your tunes ffs. it's not hard!