The Most Memorable Photograph of All Time?

[boskysquelch]

I know, I can't even be arsed to point it out anymore.

the Irony of this "discussion" is that this shot

and this ALONE turned the Vietnam War around.

AND when published the post out of head part was removed for "aesthetic" purposes...

oh

the

i_Rony.

 

[Pavlik]

then go and learn why you have no need to be.

why don't you teach me master?

 

[ajk]

it was staged.

the Woman has said so... often.

Linky?

 

[boskysquelch]

actually..fkkit I know what I know

 

[maldwyn]

I was about 7 when I first saw this photo and it disturbed me for months.

 

[g force]

Right ok.No, I dont beleive it is a setup?But I guess it could be. I thinkthe tog commited suicide shortly afterward..

Kevin Carter...yes he did, claimed the photo (which one the Pulizter) depressed him so much and made him feel guilty for taking the pic and walking away.

There's a good book called "The Bang Bang Club" that documents Carter, Marinovcih, Oosterbroek and Silva's photographs/stories at the time, including the Vulture pic.

 

[cybertect]

it was staged.

the Woman has said so... often.

Are you sure you're not confusing her with Richard Nixon?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/02/28/politics/main502490.shtml

http://www.vietnamwar.com/phanthikimphuc.htm

 

[alsoknownas]

it was staged.

the Woman has said so... often.

Are you suggesting that the Vietnam napalm photo is staged? Because that isn't the case.

 

[cybertect]

I know, I can't even be arsed to point it out anymore.

She's making a hell of a lot of mileage out of being a participant in a staged photo for someone who's supposedly denying it, being a UNESCO Goodwill Ambassador and everything.

 

[boskysquelch]

Are you suggesting that the Vietnam napalm photo is staged? Because that isn't the case.

she and the other children were given first aid...THEN the photograph was taken...THEN she was taken to hozzy.

That is what i heard HER say. Not what I read. But what I have HEARD her SAY.

Maybe a "construct " that arose from the situation witnessed...is more accurate than "staged"?

And as cybertect said...she has used the picture for "mileage"...positively...IIRC she has reasoned often that if that memorable picture has helped other children to avoid the horrors she has had to endure in her existance...then she is happy for the event to be seen in the light of how it is generally perceived_read.

 

[cybertect]

she and the other children were given first aid...THEN the photograph was taken...THEN she was taken to hozzy.

OK. I've turned up a few accounts she's made of that day, and she doesn't say that's what happened in any of them

For example: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2001/s290740.htm

KIM PHUC: When I was running out of the fire, I guessed that the photographer he was just somewhere right there but I didn't see him, of course.

I just saw my brothers and some soldier running with me.

I keep running and running until I felt so tired to run anymore so I stop and I remember one of the soldiers, he gave me some water to drink but then I screaming 'too hot, too hot'.

He tried to help me.

He poured the water over my body.

But you can imagine that is, the napalm is burning under the skin so pouring water on it just make it burn deeper so the pain was so terrible and I lost consciousness.

Which squares with other accounts

Nick Ut recalled in a 1999 interview: "When we (the reporters) moved closer to the village we saw the first people running. I thought 'Oh my God' when I suddenly saw a woman with her left leg badly burned by napalm. Then came a woman carrying a baby, who died, then another woman carrying a small child with it's skin coming off. When I took a picture of them I heard a child screaming and saw that young girl who had pulled off all her burning clothes. She yelled to her brother on her left. Just before the napalm was dropped soldiers (of the South Vietnamese Army) had yelled to the children to run but there wasn't enough time."

Nick Ut used two cameras to photograph the scenes in front of him - his Leica and a Nikon with a long lens.

Not far from him stood NBC cameraman Le Phuc Dinh, who along with Ut is credited to have produced the best documentation of Phan Thi Kim Phuc's desperate run down Route-1. Le Phuc Dinh, who is shown at work in one of Nick Ut's pictures, used a 16mm film and sound camera.

Both David Burnett and Hoang van Danh changed film in their cameras during the peak moments of the action. Danh managed a few pictures when Kim Phuc had reached the line of photographers and soldiers and sold a few of them to UPI. "Nicky, you got all the photos," said David Burnett.

Nick Ut recalls that Kim Phuc screamed "Nong qua, nong qua" ("too hot, too hot") as he photographed her running past him. When the girl had stopped Nick Ut and ITN correspondent Christopher Wain poured water from their canteens over her burns.

Kim Phuc's relatives gathered around her and the reporters. Nick Ut heard her saying to her also injured older brother Phan Thanh Tam, "I think I am going to die." (Tam is seen in Ut's award winning picture, running alongside her, at left).

Interviews with Kim Phuc and the journalists involved: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=8680472

 

[boskysquelch]

actually...nah you are almost right. better?


....but I heard her verbalize different


RIGHT

look at this YouTube link ......the ITN source...the photographer SENDS the boy in the white shirt BACK to Kim ... I think he is the photographer in the right of shot that is reloding his camera...but the kids are definately running as they are because of the direction of that photographer..therefore a construct create becasue of direction. ....take note of the barb wire in the shots, the road and the OFFICIAL line that the journos were at.


note the girl camera left...and int the photo she is camera right.

If the photographer in the still had not sent the boy back the pickee would prolly not have happened.

For anyone whose interested I really AM NOT trying to devalue the shot...what I am trying to do is to demonstrate that it is the job that creates pickees...by an' large...not the event.

 

[alsoknownas]

RIGHT

look at this YouTube link ......the ITN source...the photographer SENDS the boy in the white shirt BACK to Kim ... I think he is the photographer in the right of shot that is reloding his camera...but the kids are definately running as they are because of the direction of that photographer..therefore a construct create becasue of direction. ....take note of the barb wire in the shots, the road and the OFFICIAL line that the journos were at.

Very hard to tell, I've had quite a few looks (warning it's quite horrific).
What it does show is that all the elements are in place as they run down the road (boy and girl in the right positions, other children too, and the soldiers), and that it was possible to take the famous shot. I would have said that it provides more evidence that the shot wasn't staged, rather than the other way round (in fact I was about to post the same link to support my view!).

Having said all that - when you said it was staged, I thought you meant completely staged, like 'they staged the moon-landing'-kind-of-staged. If all you meant was that the already-napalmed-girl was told to run down a different bit of road then, well.... maybe.

 

[boskysquelch]

Having said all that - when you said it was staged, I thought you meant completely staged, like 'they staged the moon-landing'-kind-of-staged. If all you meant was that the already-napalmed-girl was told to run down a different bit of road then, well.... maybe.

yup...sorry dood I have reedited...see the second link ...note the girl in trousers.

 

[alsoknownas]

...note the girl in trousers.

Yeah, it's possible. She's in the wrong place. The photographer does seem to be slowing them down. Also, if you look at the freeze frame at the end of the sequence, she looks confused, as if trying to work out what she's supposed to do. Also both her and the boy have more distressed expressions in the photo. I'm starting to come round to the idea that they were told to walk back and then run towards him again.

If so, does that 'ruin' the picture?

Well, bit of a cold-hearted thing to do to a (clearly) traumatised and severly injured child. But (if it's possible to insert a but after that last sentence) the essential truth of the moment has not been falsified. That is the very moment that those kids fled those bombs. I now see them as also (possibly) being harrased by some Western journalists!

 

[alsoknownas]

Oh, one more thing - horrible about the other child in that footage, the one being carried - either already dead, or soon to be dead, I would have to assume. Tragic.

 

[cesare]

Hard to choose one in particular, But I find this one memorable:

Eyes Of An Afghan Refugee, Steve McCurry.

Not least because he found Sharbat Gula again 17 years later in 2002.

 

[stowpirate]

http://picasaweb.google.com/hoangtube.bk/FidelChe/photo#5129735786010720242

"Whats that snapped the editor pointing to the soldier holding kovalievs legs. Didn't you spot the watch on each wrist? He is a looter. There are no Soviet Looters"

The two flag holders were Jewish which to Stalin was politically incorrect and had the names changed to Milton Kantaria, Georgian like Stalin and M ikhail Iegorev, Russian.

This is a famous photo taken in Berlin 1945 by Yevgeny Khaldei. The official photo had one watch removed.

 

[Rainingstairs]

Burning in Protest over Vietnam leader Diem's abuse of Buddhist Monks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Monk