The Man With 20 Kids

[LilMissHissyFit]

Relatively speaking if you are contrasting them to a family in Poland.

£27k between 11 people is only £2454 per a person per annum.. which is fuck all when you factor into the £2454 has to provide the individual with food, clothes, social actvities and as a group contributing towards utilities, rent (if they pay it) etc

Contrasted to a family of 4 with a household income of £27,000, which would be £6750 per a person per annum, which is probably more in line with the national average. And for higher than average households (which is quite a lot of people) it is probably more like £33,000 or £8250 per a person per annum.

still enough for the adults of the family to spend large amounts on unecessary things, expensive things which benefit ( loose term) only themselves...

doesnt matter one jot what a 4 person households has in comparison on £27K really does it? Theyd be earning most of it rather than sitting on their arses and sponging it off the state
Collectively things would cost them relatively less, collective pooling of resources, heating, lighting ,furnishing etc.... makes most of it moot
I dont feel sorry for them, not one bit..

 

[Melinda]

still enough for the adults of the family to spend large amounts on unecessary things, expensive things which benefit ( loose term) only themselves...

doesnt matter one jot what a 4 person households has in comparison on £27K really does it? Theyd be earning most of it rather than sitting on their arses and sponging it off the state
Collectively things would cost them relatively less, collective pooling of resources, heating, lighting ,furnishing etc.... makes most of it moot
I dont feel sorry for them, not one bit..

What about the children though? Would you condemn them because their parents are lazy, selfish and flaky?

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

I feel very sorry for the kids. Just not for the parents,


Maybe there should be some sort of 'complusory food' element of benefits which can only be spent on certain shopping items.. the same way that the milk tokens ( now replaced by healthy food vouchers I understand) system works in order to ensure a certain proportion of the money is spent on food if theres no food kids wont get fed, if there is and it HAS to be bought ( removing the choice about whether to buy food) then maybe kids in the poorest families with parents who dont have their prioroties straight will get fed better and more often.

Those on benefits who do buy food and groceries for their kids anyway probably wouldnt be bothered by it,so long as it could be used in any of the supermerkets or local shops, but only on food.(so not removing choice about where to shop)

 

[Melinda]

I have to say I felt rather ill when Mike and his wife got a wad of cash out of the ATM and he stuck it in his pocket, crowing about he looked after the money.

Cut to the wife with two huge cases of strongbow in the pushchair while dad carried the baby.

 

[scifisam]

I feel very sorry for the kids. Just not for the parents,


Maybe there should be some sort of 'complusory food' element of benefits which can only be spent on certain shopping items.. the same way that the milk tokens ( now replaced by healthy food vouchers I understand) system works in order to ensure a certain proportion of the money is spent on food if theres no food kids wont get fed, if there is and it HAS to be bought ( removing the choice about whether to buy food) then maybe kids in the poorest families with parents who dont have their prioroties straight will get fed better and more often.

Those on benefits who do buy food and groceries for their kids anyway probably wouldnt be bothered by it,so long as it could be used in any of the supermerkets or local shops, but only on food.(so not removing choice about where to shop)

That's basically welfare tokens, like refugees get. The problem with them is that they vastly limit the places where the tokens can be spent, which usually means that they can't use them at local shops (it's not possible to get all local shops in on a scheme like that) or at the market, where they might save money. It also means that people who spend less on food are penalised. It doesn't work, basically.

Milk tokens aren't there to make sure some healthy food is bought. They're there to cover some of the cost of milk for babies, which isn't something that parents are likely to scrimp on (and they're only worth about £3 pw). Though I was the first in my area to request real milk instead of baby milk, because I was breastfeeding.

 

[Part 2]

I have to say I felt rather ill when Mike and his wife got a wad of cash out of the ATM and he stuck it in his pocket, crowing about he looked after the money.

Cut to the wife with two huge cases of strongbow in the pushchair while dad carried the baby.

I reckon Mike looking after the money was best. Kids had some respect for him at least. Mum seemed to like the Strongbow too and the family fell apart in Dads absence..

I still can't see where their situation could have been prevented. It's a very tricky one.

 

[Mation]

Workmates were talking about a bloke round here with 57 kids. Some reggae singer who had a song in The Harder They Come.

That must be one charming man.

"Hel-lo! You have very fine hips, young lady. Want to be mother to number 58?"

 

[wiskey]

There is no excuse for that level of squalor tho, however little money you have. And with £27k a year coming from benefits they were hardly penniless.

what does money have to do with how clean your house is?

nothing.

people get stuck in ruts, they get overwhelmed and then it just piles up. People get like that with 1 kid 'what's the point of cleaning they will only mess it up again' . . . but with 9! I can see where it comes from.

The things is that if you have 9 children, 2 adults and a dog in a small box then it will become messy. I bet if you asked the mum if she'd like to have clean sheets and windows then she's bound to say yes. If you ask her how to achieve these things or if they stay clean when she makes the effort, or even if anybody notices then I suspect the answer would be more negative.

And I think thats a shame and part of where things go wrong.

Apart from Rhiannon's educational achievement who achieved what in that family? What could they be proud of either as individuals or as a whole unit. Not a lot from what I saw.

 

[pk]

"oh Strongbow,
you came and you gave without takin'
but I sent you away, oh Strongbow,
well, you kissed me and stopped me from shakin'
and I need you today, oh, Strongbow..."

That lazy thieving fucker and his munter wife should really be forced into rehab, kids put into care in the meantime.

And sterilized.

But I did find it hard to hate him.
He did seem to love the kids he could remember fathering.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

That's basically welfare tokens, like refugees get. The problem with them is that they vastly limit the places where the tokens can be spent, which usually means that they can't use them at local shops (it's not possible to get all local shops in on a scheme like that) or at the market, where they might save money. It also means that people who spend less on food are penalised. It doesn't work, basically.

Milk tokens aren't there to make sure some healthy food is bought. They're there to cover some of the cost of milk for babies, which isn't something that parents are likely to scrimp on (and they're only worth about £3 pw). Though I was the first in my area to request real milk instead of baby milk, because I was breastfeeding.

I think personally the increased chance that the children will get fed ( and some sort of extra assurance that a proportion of the benefit can only be spent on food) can only be a good thing. The benefits outweigh the downsides IMO

 

[TrippyLondoner]

I don't understand people who need so many kids. Do they really need that many? 20 is way over the top imo.

 

[loud 1]

and the cycle of wastling continues.

 

[stanie]

1 kid is too many the way the world is, but 20?
compulsory vasectomy.

 

[scifisam]

I think personally the increased chance that the children will get fed ( and some sort of extra assurance that a proportion of the benefit can only be spent on food) can only be a good thing. The benefits outweigh the downsides IMO

So the majority of people who don't starve their kids should suffer because of a tiny minority who don't feed their kids? This bloke's kids weren't being starved, either - at least, there's no sign of that happening. Starving your kids is extremely unusual; not feeding them nutritious enough diets is fairly common, but I'm not sure how a food voucher scheme could deal with that.

And it would be suffering, to make some people spend more on food than they need to. For example, I don't spend much on food (veggie with a big store cupboard and the ability to cook cheaply), but I have a big water bill to pay off. Your policy would mean that I have less money to spend on the water bill, and have to buy needless extra food instead.

Meantime, the kind of parent bad enough to starve their kid would most likely find a way round it - probably by selling off the food voucher.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

I dont think people would suffer. I genuinely dont and Ive been on income support myself when my kdis were very small.I lived next to people who had spent all their dole on fags and booze, often weed etc too and then were scrimping and scraping to get 15p together to buy their kids a fish finger( yes really-= from the corner shop for their tea) That made them irresponsible parents who didnt think ahead but it didnt necessarily mean they didnt want to feed their kid, just that they had no real world grasp on how to buy food for their kids which would last, before buying stuff to feed their own addictions

If the tokens could be used in any supermarket ( all from aldi and lidl right through them all)then there would be nobody who couldnt use them to shop, hell even allow people to use them for internet food shopping if they wished. We have the technology to make it happen now.

Maybe a few people would still circmuvent such a system....you'd just have to make it hard to do *shrugs*

Im not suggesting a massive amount should be set aside for food shopping as obligatory out of benefit payments, but at the moment, out of quite a substantial amount of benefits only parents with kids under 5 would be under any comnulsion to spend any of it on milk or food... we still see children with malnutrition in this country, shamefully usually also amongst the very poorest families.

 

[1927]

I dont think people would suffer. I genuinely dont and Ive been on income support myself when my kdis were very small.I lived next to people who had spent all their dole on fags and booze, often weed etc too and then were scrimping and scraping to get 15p together to buy their kids a fish finger( yes really-= from the corner shop for their tea) That made them irresponsible parents who didnt think ahead but it didnt necessarily mean they didnt want to feed their kid, just that they had no real world grasp on how to buy food for their kids which would last, before buying stuff to feed their own addictions

If the tokens could be used in any supermarket ( all from aldi and lidl right through them all)then there would be nobody who couldnt use them to shop, hell even allow people to use them for internet food shopping if they wished. We have the technology to make it happen now.

Maybe a few people would still circmuvent such a system....you'd just have to make it hard to do *shrugs*

Im not suggesting a massive amount should be set aside for food shopping as obligatory out of benefit payments, but at the moment, out of quite a substantial amount of benefits only parents with kids under 5 would be under any comnulsion to spend any of it on milk or food... we still see children with malnutrition in this country, shamefully usually also amongst the very poorest families.

LMHF I am 100%in agreement with you.

If people don't kniow how to be good aprents then maybe they need a bit of help. As well as offering parenting classes, which lets be honest is a bit of a non starter, the state can atleast give them a shove in the right direction, by ensuring they get some of their priorities right. If that means giving them tokens or vouches to spend in Tesco on food rather than fags and booze then so be it.

As and aside how many programmes do you see whee people from the poorest families eat every meal from the chippy,"because its cheap", When in reality eating a healthy diet full of fruit and veg would actually be cheaper.

 

[_angel_]

The idea of getting a voucher instead of money would terrify me. Just because there are some stereotypical shit parents who don't feed their children I don't see why we all should suffer. Yes, sometimes I do buy stuff from the corner shop - it's nearer, it means I don't have to drag two kids around a supermarket.

Something like a community green grocer/ vegetable boxes as a supplement to people on low incomes/ benefits would help enormously.

Two in every three recipes I want to try usually contains a vegetable I can't buy locally.


Go down the food-stamp route and kids would miss out on treats and normal family things like days out.

 

[idioteque]

I know a family who have ~13 kids in the area, the mum said that she keeps having them because she just loves babies. They take them around in a minibus, dunno if they all fit in it any more though.

 

[wiskey]

I don't understand people who need so many kids. Do they really need that many? 20 is way over the top imo.

need?

well they dont.

want is different.

have through lack of action is probably more likely.

 

[Melinda]

Well the existence of a safety net to provide for their kids is mighty helpful.

 

[cliche guevara]

I know a family who have ~13 kids in the area, the mum said that she keeps having them because she just loves babies. They take them around in a minibus, dunno if they all fit in it any more though.

There's fourteen of them now.

 

[scifisam]

I dont think people would suffer. I genuinely dont and Ive been on income support myself when my kdis were very small.

If it meant that people had less money to pay their bills, which is what it would mean for some people, then they would suffer.

I lived next to people who had spent all their dole on fags and booze, often weed etc too and then were scrimping and scraping to get 15p together to buy their kids a fish finger( yes really-= from the corner shop for their tea) That made them irresponsible parents who didnt think ahead but it didnt necessarily mean they didnt want to feed their kid, just that they had no real world grasp on how to buy food for their kids which would last, before buying stuff to feed their own addictions

If the tokens could be used in any supermarket ( all from aldi and lidl right through them all)then there would be nobody who couldnt use them to shop, hell even allow people to use them for internet food shopping if they wished. We have the technology to make it happen now.

Maybe a few people would still circmuvent such a system....you'd just have to make it hard to do *shrugs*

Im not suggesting a massive amount should be set aside for food shopping as obligatory out of benefit payments, but at the moment, out of quite a substantial amount of benefits only parents with kids under 5 would be under any comnulsion to spend any of it on milk or food... we still see children with malnutrition in this country, shamefully usually also amongst the very poorest families.

I've never actually met anyone like that, but I don't doubt they exist. I'm certain they'd find a way round any tokens system, particularly if, as you say, they're like that because they're addicted.

And meantime I'd end up in debt because I couldn't pay my bills. Lots and lots of food, but no gas or electric to cook it with.