1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The long, drawn out, and unlamented death of Indymedia

Discussion in 'protest, direct action and demos' started by Tom A, Nov 24, 2016.

  1. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    I think you're always going to get that when your model is to pay contributors? They want to make names for themselves.

    What is tediously predictable is that they have got less diverse in their politics since getting more money behind them. There was always slightly wonk-ish guff in there about parliamentary politics, but it was matched with some more interesting stuff. Much less of that now.

    ETA: This just in:

     
  2. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Bristol cable is more artisan cafe whilst the bristolian is more local boozer. And the latter is still getting results whilst sticking to the old school basics of production and design. That's because of the quality of the investigative works and the long established contacts.
     
    chilango and editor like this.
  3. DaveCinzano

    DaveCinzano WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!

    ...And snaffling exclusives from the lumpen scandal-sheet The Bristolian into the bargain :D
     
  4. DaveCinzano

    DaveCinzano WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!

  5. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    The Canary is run as a private limited company and is funded by advertising and local fundraisers - hardly a grassroots organisation either. Never really bothered with Novara for similar reasons why I am put off the Canary.

    By "professional" I meant that it committed itself to more than being a zine that was distributed at protests, social centres and squats and actually committed to being a fully fledged media operation, a bit like what the MULE was and the Salford Star still is.
     
  6. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    Salford Star has Terry Duckworth writing in support of the Syrian revolution and against bent councils, Always going to be a winner.
     
  7. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Never asked :(
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  8. chilango

    chilango By the many, not the few.

    I did one :thumbs:

    Well, spent hours and hours tidying up the cover image pixel by fucking pixel and plonking it on the cover with some "amusing" sub header, if that counts as "design".
     
  9. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    End of last year.

    opps, sorry that was a reply to my brother on something else.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  10. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    The "anarchist milleu" tended to be (and still does tend to be) an echo chamber in itself though, particularly when it came to working with people who weren't anarchists (or overtly political at all) but who still shared a common cause with on a particular issue.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  11. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Anything with enough coherence to be called a movement is also probably an echo chamber of sorts.

    Direct Action campaigns by anarchists have engaged all sorts of people.
     
  12. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    But have also alienated many others.
     
  13. Red Sky

    Red Sky It was like that when I got here.

    Frackers, Fox hunters and Fascists?
     
    Celyn likes this.
  14. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    None of the campaigns against the above are entirely, dare I say even mostly due to anarchists, all shades of "the Left" play a role in building those campaigns.

    It's when a group goes too far and through the use of extreme tactics alienate those that otherwise are sympathetic to the cause that the problems arise.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  15. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    Okay, opening up old wounds here, but:

    What exactly is wrong with that idea?


    What the hell is that meant to mean???

    Only avoiding replying at the time to try and prevent further derailment of the thread, but there isn't really anything more that can be said about Indymedia now.
     
  16. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper It's a complicated world innit.

    What issue?
     
  17. chilango

    chilango By the many, not the few.

    [​IMG]

    I remember being sat in front of the screen trying to neaten the edge of the scoop on the bulldozer for hours.
     
  18. Idris2002

    Idris2002 this prim barbarism

    Tom A likes this.
  19. Brainaddict

    Brainaddict chief propagandist (provisional)

    'Evidence based politics' is a term that has grown with technocratic neo-liberalism. It tends towards simplistic interpretations of things that strip politics out of decision-making in favour of rather basic cost-benefit approaches. For instance there is some evidence for the 'Broken windows theory' that says 'disorder' in the environment tends to produce more 'disorder'. Evidence-based politics would simply argue over how good the evidence is on that, before deciding to take action. But once you think about the politics of disordered environments, who defines disorder, or order, what the consequences of trying to eliminate disorder might mean, who it is trying to get rid of the disorder, a whole new range of ways of looking at it opens up. From these other (political) perspectives, whether or not Broken Windows Theory is well-evidenced might come to seem irrelevant.
     
  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    surely evidence-based politics could consider, as part of the quality of the evidence, the definitional issues within it and the agendas which push it.
     
    toblerone3, Plumdaff and Tom A like this.
  21. Brainaddict

    Brainaddict chief propagandist (provisional)

    I suppose you could define a 'real evidence-based politics' that includes consideration of as many political facets as you can think of*. But I think evidence-based politics has usually been characterised in practice by lack of political thinking, or even deliberate avoidance of thorny political questions, hence the scorn you saw up-thread.

    *But even if we try to put the politics into what has been previously regarded as technical questions, you realise you have to lose the quantitative rigour you can achieve with technical questions. Suddenly the 'evidence' is qualitative and a bit messy, and offers few black and white answers any more.
     
  22. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    So it's an actual term then, not just a glib statement? Okay, I get you. All sorts of cats let out of the bag there, and with your example it can easily be used to justify gentrification of working-class communities (which New York has indeed suffered from). As for Broken Windows Theory itself, it's adherents are potentially confusing correlation with causation.

    That would be how I would have defined an "evidence based" politics. Science has to take this into account, after all.
     
  23. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    "Apolitical" solutions to issues are probably quite seductive at present considering how much bullshit is promoted in the name of politics across the political spectrum. Wikipedia's famed "neutral point of view" does provide a much saner output than what tended to come out of Indymedia and its successors in the "alternative media" landscape.
     
    NoXion and Pickman's model like this.
  24. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    Seems to me what you mean by ebp is not so much politics as the imposition of technocratic 'solutions'.
     
    NoXion likes this.
  25. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    "Technocratic solutions" of course have been a cover to push neoliberalism on countries in return for foreign aid, debt relief and suchlike, with terms that favour the country offering the aid tremendously. So in reality, "technocratic solutions" are usually very politically charged.
     
  26. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    i was thinking of the presentation, that it's all common sense, that there's no obvious politics behind it; whereas - as you declare - the most abominable agendas are at work.
     
    Tom A likes this.
  27. redsquirrel

    redsquirrel This Machine Kills Progressives

    Basically what BrainAddict said. It's a type of liberal crap that 'scientists' like Ferrel Hadley on here champion
     
  28. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    I'm not disagreeing with him. I initially thought he was criticising the idea that politics can be evidence-based, rather as opposed to what he really was criticising, a particularly school of political belief that calls itself "Evidence Based Politics".
     
  29. Brainaddict

    Brainaddict chief propagandist (provisional)

    The problem does go a bit deeper than that. As I said in my little footnote above, once you include politics as part of your 'evidence', everything becomes complicated and you inevitably lose the quantitative rigour that evidenced-based policy is often aiming for. Politics is often about interpretation, so once you allow it into your calculations, the 'right' and 'wrong' answers often become a matter of interpretation - however good some of your evidence might be.
     
  30. flickerx

    flickerx Well-Known Member

    I see indymedia.org seems to have been reanimated from the grave, after a four year silence on their front page. Wonder what happened there.
     

Share This Page