The Lives of Others

[dolly's gal]

I saw this last night and it is the best film I have seen at the cinema in absolutely AGES!

A German film, set in East Berlin 1984, about Stasi censorship and extreme monitoring of writers (and other artists). It's a superb story, beautifully acted, lots of twists and turns, very dark and deeply moving.

Excellent insight into recent German history, politics and the self as well as human nature in general.

I urge you to all go see it if you haven't already!

http://www.timeout.com/film/83836.html

 

[goldenecitrone]

I watched it in German a few weeks back. Very disturbing the lengths the Stasi (Staatsicherheit, state security) would go to to spy on people and try and trip them up. I liked the scene when the young Stasi guy comes into the canteen to tell the joke about Uncle Erich (Honecker) and then notices the older Stasi guys at the other table. You really get the sense of absolute fear and tension in that scene. And the joke is a bit lame but still funny, 'Screw you Erich, I'm in the west now'.

 

[dolly's gal]

And the joke is a bit lame but still funny, 'Screw you Erich, I'm in the west now'.

yeh was funny

eta: it's in german over here, but with subtitles - it hasn't been dubbed!

 

[goldenecitrone]

yeh was funny

eta: it's in german over here, but with subtitles - it hasn't been dubbed!

The thing that still gets me is that all the time I lived in the east of Germany, from 1994 to 1998 hardly anyone ever mentioned the Stasi. In fact, all my colleagues used to moan about 'Scheisse Capitalismus' and long for the days of the DDR. The birth of Ostalgie, but I still don't quite get it. Unless they were all members of the Stasi or informants, which is a distinct possibility.

 

[dolly's gal]

The thing that still gets me is that all the time I lived in the east of Germany, from 1994 to 1998 hardly anyone ever mentioned the Stasi. In fact, all my colleagues used to moan about 'Scheisse Capitalismus' and long for the days of the DDR. The birth of Ostalgie, but I still don't quite get it. Unless they were all members of the Stasi or informants, which is a distinct possibility.

hm interesting... they tenuously implied this feeling in the film though didn't they? at the end, a couple of years following the collapse of the wall, the minister suggested to the main guy that he no longer had anything to write about because he no longer had anything to fight against, suggesting that life had become distinctly insipid. although maybe this isn’t what your friends meant!

did you enjoy it btw?

 

[goldenecitrone]

hm interesting... they tenuously implied this feeling in the film though didn't they? at the end, a couple of years following the collapse of the wall, the minister suggested to the main guy that he no longer had anything to write about because he no longer had anything to fight against, suggesting that life had become distinctly insipid. although maybe this isn’t what your friends meant!

did you enjoy it btw?

Yes, I really enjoyed it. But I still have the feeling sometimes that films like this are anti-socialist propaganda. I know the east had lots of problems and some pretty horrible things happened, but on the other hand there were also plenty of positive things about the system. It's like when you watch a film like Trainspotting when you've been away from the UK for a while and you imagine everyone is a junkie and the whole system is fucked. Maybe it's partly true, but it only gives a tiny part of the story. But still, a great film.

 

[dolly's gal]

yeh but as a film it can only really focus on a tiny part of the story. anyone with an ounce of political knowledge would be aware that there is a bigger picture to take into account. i don't think it would have worked as well if it went on about the benefits of socialism in any meaningful way.

 

[goldenecitrone]

yeh but as a film it can only really focus on a tiny part of the story. anyone with an ounce of political knowledge would be aware that there is a bigger picture to take into account. i don't think it would have worked as well if it went on about the benefits of socialism in any meaningful way.

True, but it's a shame I can't imagine many films being made about the positive aspects of the GDR, being dubbed into English and winning an Oscar and getting worldwide publicity. But what the hell.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

The thing that still gets me is that all the time I lived in the east of Germany, from 1994 to 1998 hardly anyone ever mentioned the Stasi. In fact, all my colleagues used to moan about 'Scheisse Capitalismus' and long for the days of the DDR. The birth of Ostalgie, but I still don't quite get it. Unless they were all members of the Stasi or informants, which is a distinct possibility.

Isn't that a bit like here in China where people seem to brush all talk of the cultural revolution etc under the table?

Also some people here reckon the days of Mao were better, that things were more oppressive but there was no unemployment... Some people always get those kinds of rose tinted spectacles.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Isn't that a bit like here in China where people seem to brush all talk of the cultural revolution etc under the table?

Also some people here reckon the days of Mao were better, that things were more oppressive but there was no unemployment... Some people always get those kinds of rose tinted spectacles.

I suppose, but you'd think the way the Stasi have been portrayed in the west that more people would have been overjoyed to get rid of them. The grass is always greener.

 

[dolly's gal]

True, but it's a shame I can't imagine many films being made about the positive aspects of the GDR, being dubbed into English and winning an Oscar and getting worldwide publicity. But what the hell.

true.

tho it hasn't been dubbed into english. that would be truly awful!

 

[Dr. Furface]

The thing that still gets me is that all the time I lived in the east of Germany, from 1994 to 1998 hardly anyone ever mentioned the Stasi. In fact, all my colleagues used to moan about 'Scheisse Capitalismus' and long for the days of the DDR. The birth of Ostalgie, but I still don't quite get it. Unless they were all members of the Stasi or informants, which is a distinct possibility.

Maybe their nostalgia was something to do with the fact that East Germany was the wealthiest of all the old eastern soviet countries, and therefore standards of living not too bad. Things like rent, utilities, and medicine would either have been free or very cheap, and I imagine that a lot of people would have done quite nicely trading things on the black market too. When I went to East Berlin in 1981, admittedly it was poorer than the west (to a westerners eyes, of course), but the people generally did not seem deprived and nor did you see homeless people and addicts begging on the streets, like you did in west Berlin. Since the wall came down and the system changed, east Germans would have had to get used to living with the joys of capitalism, such as rising inflation, unemployment, ever increasing production targets, tax increases, homelessness, drug abuse, and generally being ripped off. The grass was always greener on the other side of the wall when it was up, but it's not surprising that the public's opinion of capitalism isn't as enthusiastic as it was when they didn't really understand it.

As for the film, I really enjoyed it, although I thought the ending was a bit naff. It was interesting that it's main subject was a writer - it made me think of how artists were also hounded in America under McCarthy and falsely accused of being Communists. Different system - same targets. Paranoia about state subversion and freedom of speech aren't the preserve of any particular social and economic system, but the people that are in control of the state's apparatus.

 

[dolly's gal]

As for the film, I really enjoyed it, although I thought the ending was a bit naff.

i knew someone here would say that!

i actually thought it was rather poignant. the half smile on his face in the closing still was the only time he looked even slightly happy in the entire film.

 

[Reno]

Just adding a brief review I worte for something else:

As a piece of film making, especially for a first film, The Lives of Others is a confident, multi-layered and tremendously elegant work. It's very atmospheric and perfectly evokes the look and feel of the former East Germany. Its protagonists are fascinating and complex and it works both as a character study and as a suspenseful political thriller that takes some genuinely unexpected turns.

The film has come in for some criticism because it's essentially a redemption story and this is why it's considered to have done well at the Oscars. I'm still not quite sure how I feel about this myself. I generally don't like it when historical films about human tragedies get turned around to provide an uplift. It's plausibility has also been challenged and rightly so, but then again this isn't trying to be a 100% accurate historical account of Stasi oppression. Its main theme is about a man regaining his humanity through the transformative power of art. This might sound trite, but the film makes it work by staying clear of sentimentality until the last couple of scenes, which depending on the viewer might be over-egging it or be a welcome release of emotion in a film that holds it all in until then. It may sound impossible idealistic, but when I saw it I realised how rare it is for a film to celebrate the potential for good in man without resorting to cheap sentiment. We live in a post Tarantino age where it's cool to celebrate the badass, so it was a relief to see a film that celebrates humanistic virtues without going gooey.

Like Rear Window and any good surveillance thriller this also works as an allegory for how we absorb film and art in general and the way the Stasi protagonist starts to live his life through "others" by identifying with them and ultimately falls in love with them is incredibly well done. When he starts to intervene it's like someone entering the film they have been watching.

It may not have been my favourite German film of last year (that was Hans-Christian Schmid's quietly devastating Requiem), but I'm glad that after two decades of mostly unremarkable work there are finally good films coming out of Germany again and The Lives of Others is very good indeed.

 

[Hollis]

It's very atmospheric and perfectly evokes the look and feel of the former East Germany. Its protagonists are fascinating and complex and it works both as a character study and as a suspenseful political thriller that takes some genuinely unexpected turns.

Well I don't know about that.. I spent 3 days in East Berlin, so can't really comment. But that's the thing which disappointed me about the film - I didn't think it was particularly atmostpheric or particular to East Germany. It was a film about surveillance and oppression, and that was about that.

I'm not saying it was a bad film, just not as good as I was hoping.

 

[Reno]

Well I don't know about that.. I spent 3 days in East Berlin, so can't really comment. But that's the thing which disappointed me about the film - I didn't think it was particularly atmostpheric or particular to East Germany. It was a film about surveillance and oppression, and that was about that.

I'm not saying it was a bad film, just not as good as I was hoping.

I spent quite a bit of time in East Germany throughout my childhood, visiting my grandparents there and I thought the film caught the time and place tremendously well. Considering how specifically The Lives of Others deals with the methods of the Stasi secret police as opposed to any other oppressive regimes I find it odd that you feel the film wasn't particular to East Berlin. This particular political situation serves as the backdrop to a story of a Stasi agent ironically regaining his humanity through the very instruments of this regime, so I also disagree that it is about nothing more than surveillance and oppression.

 

[Gramsci]

I agree with a lot of what Reno says.I get the impression that East Germany unlike Communist Poland or the Czech New Wave didnt have any "thaws" where films critical of Communism could be made.

A historical comment about informers.In I believe Hungary a well known filmmaker has been outed as an informer.As he said if u read his reports to the secret police they are bollox.He used to report nights out with his friends and students where they used to praise the Communist party .In many East European countries people became adept at manipulating the system.This did lead to cynicism.A Czech friend of mine said the Communists were stupid.

Seems to me the Lives of Others is a morally complex film.The Playwrite must know in his heart that his "Brechtian" plays have nothing to do with the reality of East Germany and that he is propping up the system as much as the Stasi watching him.(Brecht himself moved to East Germany after the war.)

 

[Firky]

Last time I watched a film you put me onto was shite.

"I'm going around to my mates for a few beers and to watch a video"
"oohh you have to download little miss sunshine, its funniest film I have seen for years."

Two hours later firky's friends think he is either gay or a nonce

 

[marty21]

saw it tonight, really enjoyed it, a little grim in parts. very twisty turny, flashes of humour too, excellent filum

 

[dolly's gal]

Two hours later firky's friends think he is either gay or a nonce

they only just figured that out?!

 

[lang rabbie]

Finally got around to seeing Das Leben der Anderen last night. (It must be the first film with subtitles to show at the Streatham Odeon as well as the Ritzy for a good few years!) I thought it was really impressive, and Ulrich Mühe as Wiesler was an astonishing performance.

Well I don't know about that.. I spent 3 days in East Berlin, so can't really comment. But that's the thing which disappointed me about the film - I didn't think it was particularly atmostpheric or particular to East Germany. It was a film about surveillance and oppression, and that was about that.

IMHO What it showed so well was that Stasi men were career bureaucats like any others, and that the ruthless exercise of power by DDR's state security apparatus was accompanied by the banality of official procedure. „Stasi – Macht und Banalität“ as the new museum in Leipzig has it.

And it rightly showed that high-up people in the party and artists in trusted positions had access to a pretty high standard of living compared to the rest of the Warsaw pact. Indeed, I thought the only false note was the unrelenting greyness of the exterior shots outside Dreyman's flat, but that's probably because the bits of Prenzlauer Berg where the "more equal" members of the DDR's artistic community chose to live have now been so spruced up by the influx of post-reunification cash that there was no way that they could distress them down for film shooting.

[And although I have long had a perverse sort of nostalgia for the look of the DDR, it is rapidly gaining retro chic - I was gobsmacked to see that Wallpaper* magazine, the interior design rag for politically clueless fashionistas had a feature on DDR style last year. I was idly wondering during the film whether the interior of Hauptmann Wiesler's apartment would be giving cues to next autumn's IKEA catalogue.]

 

[DJWrongspeed]

I'm not sure I 'enjoyed' watching this, it's a very dark, solemn movie but I'm glad to have to have sat through it. I love the way the music is held back till about a 3rd in. The sets make for a very drab & grey world. The bar featured looks like 1950 or something, as dull as possible. In contrast the writer's flat is positively bristling with decor.

 

[maya]

It's a great film, but the directors got a fair bit of criticism for sweetening up the plot by making the Stasi guy eventually try to help the persecuted guy- To my knowledge, no Stasi agent did ever switch sides or trick the system...
Making up a character like that just makes the regime look less frightening than it was (along with the romantic DDR nostalgia/Ostalgie wave like 'Goodbye, Lenin' and so on which leaves out the terrifying aspects of the surveillance state)

 

[Reno]

It's a great film, but the directors got a fair bit of criticism for sweetening up the plot by making the Stasi guy eventually try to help the persecuted guy- To my knowledge, no Stasi agent did ever switch sides or trick the system...
Making up a character like that just makes the regime look less frightening than it was (along with the romantic DDR nostalgia/Ostalgie wave like 'Goodbye, Lenin' and so on which leaves out the terrifying aspects of the surveillance state)

The director got criticised more for not depicting the surveillance process correctly in that a single agent would have not been able to monitor someone from beginning to the end without someone else monitoring him and he wouldn't have been able to get involved to this degree. As to whether Stasi agents got disillusioned or attempted to "trick the system" nobody would know about because they and the state would have had to keep that very secret. This means there is some room for artistic licence as far as the character goes.

Also remember that Goodbye, Lenin wasn't about surveillance and that most of it took place after the wall came down. What Goodbye, Lenin was about was how families were often torn apart when one of them decided to escape, so it didn't leave anything out, it was just about different aspects of the regime.

 

[zygote]

I think you're all reading much too much into it.

It is really just a simple story about a writer who gets given a back scratcher as a birthday gift only to discover it is in fact a salad fork.

 

[Cloo]

Thought it was excellent. Some very good performances.

My mum, who grew up in Czechoslovakia said it had added resonance to anyone who'd grown up in 'panelaki' (grim soviet housing estates), like she had. And also, in her case, sadly from a family that had lots of run-ins with the secret police.

It was interesting to watch this having read Timothy Garton Ash's book 'The File' - about him reading his own Stasi surveillance file in the 1990s from when he worked there some years earlier. The depth and breadth of the Stasi surveillance machine was quite terrifying.

 

[DJWrongspeed]

It was interesting to watch this having read Timothy Garton Ash's book 'The File' - about him reading his own Stasi surveillance file in the 1990s from when he worked there some years earlier. The depth and breadth of the Stasi surveillance machine was quite terrifying.

my thoughts as well, this was a great book, watching this file made the last few scenes a bit self evident because you knew about the great 'opening up' of the files.

 

[han]

What an excellent film. Utterly utterly gripping.

A friend of mine who is a born and bred east Berliner said she thought it wasn't particularly true to life, in the sense that she didn't think that a Stasi man would actually DO the honourable thing and take such a risk as moving the typewriter.

But it was a bloody good yarn - incredibly well acted, intense, highly charged and very moving. I shed a few tears at the end, I have to admit....

 

[han]

Oh and another thing - I thought the score (by Gabriel Yared, who did the English Patient, and someone else) was absolutely stunning - I'd really like to get it on cd.

 

[Maltin]

Ulrich Muhe died recently.

http://weblogs.variety.com/thompsononhollywood/2007/07/ulrich-muhe-liv.html