The Left List

[Udo Erasmus]

Ok, i will.

A pretty dishonest reading. It suprises me not that it's udo at the centre. Each 'It would be wrong' above is a not a claim that RESPECT_RENEWAL is doing this, or looking likely to do this, but a bland general perspective document being put forward internally. That you, from your tradition, cannot recognise internal democracy and debate as anything but a threat (and certainly not as a fucntioning part of politics) is no longer suprising.

No, if you read it, it is clear that he is addressing what he believes is a significant strand of opinion within Respect Renewal. Not making rhetorical points. Hence, the phrase: "A number of debates have emerged in the course of building Respect Renewal" and the phrase about what should be rather basic things for socialists have become contentious.

Obviously, this is my opinion, but I think what we are getting is a diplomatic and veiled document that suggests that Mr Thornett has serious worries about the trajectory of some of his colleagues

 

[butchersapron]

No, if you read it, it is clear that he is addressing what he believes is a significant strand of opinion within Respect Renewal. Not making rhetorical points. Hence, the phrase: "A number of debates have emerged in the course of building Respect Renewal" and the phrase about what should be rather basic things for socialists have become contentious.

Obviously, this is my opinion, but I think what we are getting is a diplomatic and veiled document that suggests that Mr Thornett has serious worries about the trajectory of some of his colleagues

I have read it thanks.

... and what do we call an internal disgreement on emphasis udo? A crisis? Or a healthy part of the organisations functioning? As noted above, for you and your tradition it is inevitably the first.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

They said they were contacting her, I don't know if they have yet! But I think they were faxing or sending a letter. As to 'Where?'. On the SocialistDisunity Blog, a member of the Renewal NC stated that this was there position.

Who?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

No, if you read it, it is clear that he is addressing what he believes is a significant strand of opinion within Respect Renewal. Not making rhetorical points. Hence, the phrase: "A number of debates have emerged in the course of building Respect Renewal" and the phrase about what should be rather basic things for socialists have become contentious.

Obviously, this is my opinion, but I think what we are getting is a diplomatic and veiled document that suggests that Mr Thornett has serious worries about the trajectory of some of his colleagues

Clutching at straws Udo.

Renewal is aiming to be a multi-tendency organisation of the sort that Respect should have been from the start. From your SWP tradition you are unable to recognise debate and ideas being put forward in a positive, non-sectarian and fraternal way.

As far as the SWP are concerned, everything is either wonderful or dreadful.

The commitment to building a pluralist multi-tendency party of the left goes way beyond the current perspective relating to Renewal. Read:
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1416
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article1413
and
http://internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article176

 

[barney_pig]

Described as "RMT London Political Officer" on the latest flyer for the NSSN conference. Is that not true?

gave up the post to stand as regional secretary (and lost)

 

[Fisher_Gate]

gave up the post to stand as regional secretary (and lost)

Sorry that just cannot be true! A bulletin to 'Respect' members earlier this month from John Rees said:
"The Left List candidates include ... Unjum Mirza the London political officer from the RMT"

How could John Rees make such a mistake - it's unthinkable! Wash your mouth out with carbolic soap!

By the way, who won the election?

 

[nwnm]

On a newstand near you shortly ...[/QUObout the only peTE]
a
we'll have to call you lot the jugglers... the ISG are about the only people attempting to sell the 'respect' newspaper. Prior to that, they were the only people trying to flog socialist resistance - whilst at the same time flogging their own socialist outlook. All ya need to do now is bounce up and down on a ball and you'll bare a striking resemblance to the cat in the hat

 

[butchersapron]

Hey, it's nearly aprils fool day Nwm - the one day on the year when your islamophobic guff about Galloway being a muslim is believed by all the little boys ansd girls.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

we'll have to call you lot the jugglers... the ISG are about the only people attempting to sell the 'respect' newspaper. Prior to that, they were the only people trying to flog socialist resistance - whilst at the same time flogging their own socialist outlook. All ya need to do now is bounce up and down on a ball and you'll bare a striking resemblance to the cat in the hat

Profound ... as usual.

 

[lewislewis]

I have nothing to do with the whole thing and we don't know anything about it down here, but I want to make a pertinent point that 'the Left Party' and 'the Left List' are actually decent names, although of course the SWP are dodgy as. It's all about the alliteration.

 

[Prince Rhyus]

Still thinks the concept of a "left list lovelie" would have gone down well with Daily Star readers.​

 

[The Black Hand]

Dynamic?! Could any title be devised to sound less dynamic?

About the same as the IWCA name i would say.

 

[nwnm]

Hey, it's nearly aprils fool day Nwm - the one day on the year when your islamophobic guff about Galloway being a muslim is believed by all the little boys ansd girls.

Its probably the one day in the year you'll spell check your your posts as well....

 

[butchersapron]

Its probably the one day in the year you'll spell check your your posts as well....

Wrong again!

 

[cockneyrebel]

Its probably the one day in the year you'll spell check your your posts as well....

 

[treelover]

That just looks hackneyed, so 2003, what about U.k poverty, housing, welfare issues, the NHS, who is it aimed at? I really do think the far left is isolated from and doesn't understand, everyday concerns.

On a newstand near you shortly ...

 

[Udo Erasmus]

"in the process of approaching ..." Jeez how long does it take to pick up a telephone or send an e-mail?

Where?

Ask Linda Smith and Respect Renewal they've been sitting on a letter from two Respect branches for quite awhile!

 

[nwnm]

But they're both spelt right guv....

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Ask Linda Smith and Respect Renewal they've been sitting on a letter from two Respect branches for quite awhile!

Which branches?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

That just looks hackneyed, so 2003, what about U.k poverty, housing, welfare issues, the NHS, who is it aimed at? I really do think the far left is isolated from and doesn't understand, everyday concerns.

It's aimed at left wing activists. The Respect paper is aimed at every day issues.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Curiously the SWP fronted Left List are calling for a Labour vote in two wards on the grounds that the candidates are 'left wing'. There are two reasons why this is curious:

a) they have no advice for Respect voters in the rest of the city (in 2005 Respect stood in the Preston parliamentary seat and in County elections across urban Preston, so they certainly exist); this includes the Deepdale ward held by independents, and wards where Labour are the main challenger to sitting LibDem and Tory councillors (Tories are the current administration with LibDem backing).

b) Trying to distinguish who is on the 'left' and who is on the 'right' in the Preston Labour is a pretty difficult task. One of the candidates they have given their support to certainly is not a consistent left winger, and is part of the soggy 'Tribunite' current that exist in Preston. The 'Left List' appear to be pulling a few things out of the past and claiming that means they are 'left wing'. They'll regret that differentiation one day.

 

[Udo Erasmus]

Which branches?

Cardiff and Swansea representing 4 or 5 candidates selected at legitimately constituted Respect meetings at which all paid up members were invited (including those of the Respect 'Renewal platform') and all supporters and anyone who had ever been a member invited to attend (obviously having to join to be eligible to vote). The confusion has certainly had an adverse on our campaign - one obviously doesn't want to print hundreds of leaflets with a name that you won't be able to use etc. But the project of building a broad eco-socialist party to the left of Labour & the nationalists continues.

Lotta Continua!

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Curiously the SWP fronted Left List are calling for a Labour vote in two wards on the grounds that the candidates are 'left wing'. There are two reasons why this is curious:

a) they have no advice for Respect voters in the rest of the city (in 2005 Respect stood in the Preston parliamentary seat and in County elections across urban Preston, so they certainly exist); this includes the Deepdale ward held by independents, and wards where Labour are the main challenger to sitting LibDem and Tory councillors (Tories are the current administration with LibDem backing).

b) Trying to distinguish who is on the 'left' and who is on the 'right' in the Preston Labour is a pretty difficult task. One of the candidates they have given their support to certainly is not a consistent left winger, and is part of the soggy 'Tribunite' current that exist in Preston. The 'Left List' appear to be pulling a few things out of the past and claiming that means they are 'left wing'. They'll regret that differentiation one day.

Sorry just realised it should have said 'In Preston ...'

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Cardiff and Swansea representing 4 or 5 candidates selected at legitimately constituted Respect meetings at which all paid up members were invited (including those of the Respect 'Renewal platform') and all supporters and anyone who had ever been a member invited to attend (obviously having to join to be eligible to vote). The confusion has certainly had an adverse on our campaign - one obviously doesn't want to print hundreds of leaflets with a name that you won't be able to use etc. But the project of building a broad eco-socialist party to the left of Labour & the nationalists continues.

Lotta Continua!

Okay - when was the letter sent?

 

[chilango]

I heard the ISG are noe backing the Greens in the Mayoral election...how far is such thinking spreading thru RR? and will that backing be extended to other Green candidates?

 

[belboid]

just got my first election leaflet today. From 'Respect' (SWP) who don't bother to mention that they won't actually be standing under that name!

 

[Fisher_Gate]

I heard the ISG are noe backing the Greens in the Mayoral election...how far is such thinking spreading thru RR? and will that backing be extended to other Green candidates?

http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/fourth-international-backs-sin-berry/

They are backing Sian Berry on her individual merits rather than the Green Party per se.

There are at least three positions in RR - vote Livingstone only, vote German first, Livingstone second; vote Berry first, Livingstone second. It's called pluralism. I wouldn't know which one was dominant. I'm not losing any sleep over it, so long as everyone's in favour of Livingstone winning.

Didn't the SWP come out a while ago for supporting Green candidates where there was no other left winger standing? Certainly back in the dim mists of time, the SWP argued for a vote for Labour in general elections, even where there were socialist candidates.

 

[glenquagmire]

Didn't the SWP use to back the Labour-union link?

Presume that's been dropped now.

 

[chilango]

http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2008/03/30/fourth-international-backs-sin-berry/

They are backing Sian Berry on her individual merits rather than the Green Party per se.

There are at least three positions in RR - vote Livingstone only, vote German first, Livingstone second; vote Berry first, Livingstone second. It's called pluralism. I wouldn't know which one was dominant. I'm not losing any sleep over it, so long as everyone's in favour of Livingstone winning.

Didn't the SWP come out a while ago for supporting Green candidates where there was no other left winger standing? Certainly back in the dim mists of time, the SWP argued for a vote for Labour in general elections, even where there were socialist candidates.

Fair enough.

I think its a positive move (obviously).

I don't remember the SWP calling for a Green vote, but who knows...I certainly remember the "Vote Labour" times. One (of the many) reasons I left them.

 

[treelover]

Bizzare, why such a binary division?

It's aimed at left wing activists. The Respect paper is aimed at every day issues.