The Left List
- Thread starter bluestreak
- Start date
I would assume that they've just buggered up their nomination forms somehow....
Matt
P.S. I note that 'Animals Count' are standing in Lambeth.
P.P.S. I suppose there is just an outside chance that LL aren't standing in North East because the Green candidate (Aled Fisher) is a socialist - but I find that very unlikely.
Matt
P.S. I note that 'Animals Count' are standing in Lambeth.
P.P.S. I suppose there is just an outside chance that LL aren't standing in North East because the Green candidate (Aled Fisher) is a socialist - but I find that very unlikely.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
What FisherGate ignores is that the majority of Respect members and branches are not in support of Respect Renewal (George Galloway). So you hae a bizarre situation where the majority of Respect branches will not be able to stand candidates under their own name.
Despite the use of 'Respect/SWP' by George Galloway supporters. Most of the independents have not gone over to the George Galloway side.
Out of interest, Respect Renewal didn't even have a selection meeting for their GLA candidates. Guess who selected the candidates? The Renewal membership or George Galloway?
Answer: George Galloway!
So much for democracy . . .
Despite the use of 'Respect/SWP' by George Galloway supporters. Most of the independents have not gone over to the George Galloway side.
Out of interest, Respect Renewal didn't even have a selection meeting for their GLA candidates. Guess who selected the candidates? The Renewal membership or George Galloway?
Answer: George Galloway!
So much for democracy . . .
cockneyrebel
New Member
Are you in the SWP or RESPECT Udo?
In terms of independents, one organisation is Galloway and his followers the other is 90% SWP members.
In terms of independents, one organisation is Galloway and his followers the other is 90% SWP members.
JHE
.
Al-Respeq was built around three pillars: the Social Workers, the great man Galloway and the Muslims.
The bulk of the Muslims went with Galloway. That's why the East End of London and Brum, the two places where al-Respeq has some weight, are both in the Galloway camp.
The Galloway camp also has the famous and semi-famous independents - Victoria Brittain, Ken Loach, Bernie Parkes, Nick Wrack and the extraordinary Yvonne Ridley.
The Thornett-led Trots of the ISG - and fellow traveller Fisher_Gate - are also in the Galloway camp.
The Social Workers are left with themselves and a handful of chums. Where al-Respeq consisted of nothing but some Social Workers and some Social Working students, al-Respeq remains in the Social Work camp, obviously.
The Social Workers' Islamo-Trot plan has fallen apart. Oh, dear! How sad! Never mind!
Its listed now- assume mess up by London Elects - Unjum Mirza is Candidate
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
I'm a not a member of the SWP. I'm a member of Respect/Left List (the non-Galloway faction).
The other Respect is "other is 90% SWP members".
This is just not my personal experience, I can't speak for elsewhere. But my own branch includes an ex-Plaid councillor, a Welsh actress who co-wrote a play with Jo Brand and was in Doctor Who, some union reps, an ex-CP member, some Palestinians, and some environmental and LGBT activists.
As you would expect, given that the split was essentially at the top of the organisation and most Respect branches there was no fundamental polarisation, most non-alligned activists just stayed with the people they have worked with for the last 4 years. In my own branch, people might respect Galloway or Ken Loach, but most of the 'independent' members joined because they met us through our local activism on issues such as visiting picketlines, our involvement in pro-choice protests, anti-war and environmental stuff. So they joined because of people they met personally rather than because of the leadership - though having a profile helps.
The split was ashame because it came at a point when my own Respect branch had turned a corner from being a little moribund to a small but expanding network of activists.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
I repeat my challenge
GIVE A SINGLE EXAMPLE OF A 'RESPECT' BRANCH THAT HAS REQUESTED ENDORSEMENT BY LINDA SMITH AND BEEN TURNED DOWN BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT SUPPORTERS OF RENEWAL ...
Unless you can come up with an example, STOP LYING!!
You know that the SWP would veto any request to Linda Smith ... so why bother bleating your pathetic lies?
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Is Carole Vincent still standing outside her area?
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
is unjum still lying about his union position?
JHE
.
Redbridge & Havering - "outside her area"?
Redbridge, as it happens, is just next door to Waltham Forest.
I'm sure you don't object to a certain Dundonian coming down to stand for election in London. I'm equally certain that you have no objection to people who have come all the way from Bangladesh standing for election in London - or indeed standing anywhere they fancy.
Yet when a Social Worker - and like the Dundonian, an ex-participant in a TV freak show - stands for election in a neighbouring borough, she is "standing outside her area"!
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
No problem with the principle - it's just that the election material for her just six weeks ago emphasised her localness which I think is hypocritical. I tire of parties constantly making that point in local elections. Just elect the best person - who cares where they live? (tongue firmly in cheek
)Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Described as "RMT London Political Officer" on the latest flyer for the NSSN conference. Is that not true?
JHE
.
No problem with the principle - it's just that the election material for her just six weeks ago emphasised her localness which I think is hypocritical. I tire of parties constantly making that point in local elections. Just elect the best person - who cares where they live? (tongue firmly in cheek
Fair enough.
At the risk of sticking up unnecessarily for a Social Worker, I'd add...
IIRC, the last election Carole Vincent stood in was to be a ward councillor. I think a person's link to the locality is relevant. I don't say it is super-important that the ward councillor lives in the ward, but he/she should know the area well and have some connection - eg, lives there, works there, has family or friends there, grew up there, used to live there for years, spends lots of time there for some other reason...
She's now standing on the Left List's GLA party list (4th) and as the Left List's candidate for a fairly large chunk of north-east and outer east London, Redbridge and Havering. For the first role, being a Londoner (of some sort - I don't know her biography) is 'localness' enough. For the second, I suppose the fact that she's in east London is relevant and I wouldn't assume that she is unfamiliar with Redbridge and Havering - but, if she is clueless, that might well get shown up at any local hustings.
Fisher -go to BBC website on the GLA elections. L German is there for the mayor candidate Left List but on the site is under her name The Left List and Respect Unity Coalition. It seems that the word "Respect" will not be under Left List candidates on the ballot paper but it will be used in publicity etc..
How this pans out could be a low vote for LL and some loss in finances. Respect (Galloway) could equally be hit by this confusion in terms of votes. Or it could do better than LL.
Where LL goes after the elections in anyones guess but SWP need a close look at its activities and how they now look, to others in the left arena.
How this pans out could be a low vote for LL and some loss in finances. Respect (Galloway) could equally be hit by this confusion in terms of votes. Or it could do better than LL.
Where LL goes after the elections in anyones guess but SWP need a close look at its activities and how they now look, to others in the left arena.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
I know two branches that are in the process of approaching Linda Smith, incidentally with no objection from the national office of Respect.
Thing is FisherGate, I have read a member of the NC of Respect Renewal state that the position of RRs NC is that Linda Smith is not to sign any ballot paper of non-RR candidates.
So who selected Respect Renewal's GLA candidates?
was it:
a) The London members and supporters of Respect Renewal?
b) George Galloway?
Answer, George Galloway picked them!
So much for democracy.
Finally, you should read Alan Thornett's article to be published in the next edition of Socialist Resistance, even he admits that their is a serious rightwing drift in Renewal!
JHE
.
What makes you think there will be another edition of Socialist Resistance?
I believe the people who used to publish Socialist Resistance, the ISG and a couple of chums, ceased producing their rag and handed over their resources and efforts to al-Respeq (GG wing) to produce the al-Respeq rag instead.
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Isnt it the "Poor me poor me pour me a drink party".
JHE
.
Link, please.
it depends on whether LL can get the message out to Respect voters that the bogus Respect list that Galloway is heading has nothing to do with Respect.
Chances are, with just a month to go, the answer may be there is not enough time
Chancs are, unfortunatley, is that with a left list vote split three ways, no left candidate will be elected
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
http://liammacuaid.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/respect-renewal-and-agencies-for-social-change/
What Udo says is bollocks of course.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
"in the process of approaching ..." Jeez how long does it take to pick up a telephone or send an e-mail?
Where?
JHE
.
Yeah. If only you can get that message out, people inclined to vote al-Respeq will believe that GG and the Muslims have nothing to do with the party that has been best known as being the party of GG and the Muslims... er...
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
I could pull out whole chunks from that article that are veiled and diplomatic criticisms of elements of Renewal - in fact, Thornett's critique is remarkably similar to that advanced by the SWP.
For example, the allusions to an electoralist orientation:
"But equally, to reduce Respect Renewal to an electoral organisation, or even an organisation principally concerned with the electoral field, would be a big mistake" -
why would he write this unless he thought that there was a big issue in Respect Renewal with leaders who precisely wanted to do this? That is to say, he saying their is a significant element within Renewal who just want to reduce it to an electoral organisation and a completely reformist orientation.
Thornett's phrase :
"Surprisingly some of these basic forms of organisation have been contentious."
He's talking here about basic activism, you know like going on demonstrations. Why would he mention this, unless their was a significant sections of Renwal that were questioning this?
Then Thornett says:
"Then there is the view that community work should be Respect Renewal’s overwhelming priority. And indeed it is extremely important . . . . But it would be wrong to counterpose these areas of work when they are in fact complementary and interlocking areas of activity."
But here's a very interesting section, he basically concurs with the SWPs criticism of Galloway and Co as having written off the working class as an agency of change:
"Agencies for change:
The issue at stake here is not whether community-based struggles and politics are important but whether such struggles have now replaced the organised working class as an agency for progressive social change. Community action, of course, is as much a part of the struggle of the working class as workplace action. And many of the big struggles of the future will be around environmental issues. But that is a different matter from the implication that the organised workers movement no longer has a key role to play as an agency for social change even if this is alongside other forms of organisation and action."
Alan Thornett is basically saying that a significant strand within Respect Reneal no longer wants to orientate to the working class as the agency of change - in essence, they are abandoning socialism.
And then a whole section on Renewal entitled 'pessimism' where he basically concurs with the SWP analysis. Don't take my word for it that there is a serious right-ward drift within Respect Renewal - read Thornett's article.
Fisher, who is he talking about in this article when he raises such serious concerns?
But, you know, judge for yourself!
For example, the allusions to an electoralist orientation:
"But equally, to reduce Respect Renewal to an electoral organisation, or even an organisation principally concerned with the electoral field, would be a big mistake" -
why would he write this unless he thought that there was a big issue in Respect Renewal with leaders who precisely wanted to do this? That is to say, he saying their is a significant element within Renewal who just want to reduce it to an electoral organisation and a completely reformist orientation.
Thornett's phrase :
"Surprisingly some of these basic forms of organisation have been contentious."
He's talking here about basic activism, you know like going on demonstrations. Why would he mention this, unless their was a significant sections of Renwal that were questioning this?
Then Thornett says:
"Then there is the view that community work should be Respect Renewal’s overwhelming priority. And indeed it is extremely important . . . . But it would be wrong to counterpose these areas of work when they are in fact complementary and interlocking areas of activity."
But here's a very interesting section, he basically concurs with the SWPs criticism of Galloway and Co as having written off the working class as an agency of change:
"Agencies for change:
The issue at stake here is not whether community-based struggles and politics are important but whether such struggles have now replaced the organised working class as an agency for progressive social change. Community action, of course, is as much a part of the struggle of the working class as workplace action. And many of the big struggles of the future will be around environmental issues. But that is a different matter from the implication that the organised workers movement no longer has a key role to play as an agency for social change even if this is alongside other forms of organisation and action."
Alan Thornett is basically saying that a significant strand within Respect Reneal no longer wants to orientate to the working class as the agency of change - in essence, they are abandoning socialism.
And then a whole section on Renewal entitled 'pessimism' where he basically concurs with the SWP analysis. Don't take my word for it that there is a serious right-ward drift within Respect Renewal - read Thornett's article.
Fisher, who is he talking about in this article when he raises such serious concerns?
But, you know, judge for yourself!
Udo Erasmus
Well-Known Member
They said they were contacting her, I don't know if they have yet! But I think they were faxing or sending a letter. As to 'Where?'. On the SocialistDisunity Blog, a member of the Renewal NC stated that this was there position.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ok, i will.
A pretty dishonest reading. It suprises me not that it's udo at the centre. Each 'It would be wrong' above is a not a claim that RESPECT_RENEWAL is doing this, or looking likely to do this, but a bland general perspective document being put forward internally. That you, from your tradition, cannot recognise internal democracy and debate as anything but a threat (and certainly not as a fucntioning part of politics) is no longer suprising.
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