The Left is a failure in the UK - but why? - A Friday poll for the less political too

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Haven't read all this thread. But the way i see it. Left/socialist/communist/anarchist means everyone has an equal say in society and get a fair share of the worlds resources. On that basis the Left is winning over the long term. Compare now to 200 years ago and there's no question which way the world is headed...

You think? Can you back that up because it doesn't look much like that to me tbh.

 

[treefrog]

 

[Brainaddict]

The Left will always suffer setbacks but they are only temporary.

Is that like the Christians always winning really cos one day Jesus will come back?

 

[kyser_soze]

Then bang! economic turbulance created political upheaval. Beginning with a movement against war in Vietnam (that failed to stop the war) the movement became ever more militant. In the UK in the 70s there was an explosion of militancy.

So militant, that the country went down the shitter and at the end of the decade the general public elected a politician who promised to 'do something' about union militancy.

When are you old lefties going to realise that the 70s were a dismal failure on just about every level. Failure to respond to changes in technology and the world outside, failure to engage with the public about striking and alienating the support base for TUs.

Compare now to 200 years ago and there's no question which way the world is headed...

Heh, I was thinking about this this morning - most people now live in a similar way to the aristocratic French of the Court of the Sun Kings - wealthy in name and title, theorectically wealthy in land holdings, but utterly reliant on the King (in this case the banks) for that to continue. Mortgages, pensions, life assurance...

All that's happened is that hierarchy has changed and altered it's form in the face of new ideas and technology. Yes most are materially better off than 200 years ago, but does anyone really have any more political power or freedom?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Too much factionalism.

Not enough sorting out peoples mundane problems.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Too much factionalism.

Not enough sorting out peoples mundane problems.

Spot on.

 

[scott_forester]

Why are people obsessed with class? Get over it.

 

[treelover]

John McDonnell has consistently posted new and forward thinking ideas, including this.


LEAP Conference: Beyond the Market Economy
Left Economics Advisory Panel Another World is Possible

LEAP and Another World is Possible are co-hosting an economics conference ‘Beyond the Market Economy’ on Saturday 24th May 2008, 11am-4:30pm at Birkbeck College, University of London, Malet Street, WC1E 7HX. Click here to see a map of the location.

Plenary speakers include Tony Benn and John McDonnell MP. Download the full conference agenda. Sub-plenaries include: Securing housing for all; Ending corporate power: 21st century models of social ownership; Drowning in debt: transforming the financial system; and Defending pay, pensions and jobs in a global market economy. Download full details of the sub-plenaries.

You can register online or by sending a cheque for £10 (£5 unwaged), payable to ‘Another World is Possible’, to LRC, PO Box 2378, London, E5 9QU.

 

[treelover]

When i see the massed ranks of the far left, anarchist, activist fraternity be as serious as this, even the greens don't seem to have these events I may reappraise my views.

 

[cockneyrebel]

The revolutionary left are significantly larger than was the case in the early 60s.

Sorry but this is pie in the sky. On one hand you can say the CPGB not being around is a good thing (which is true in many ways) but on the other hand they reflected a base of 10,000s of working class activists who had ideas far to the left of old Labour. Today that just doesn't exist.

The revolutionary left in this country has been dwindling for years and now probably totals less than 3-4000 active members in the whole country.

The far left as a whole is in its worst state for over 100 years, and the same goes for the workers movement.

That doesn't mean you have to be demoralised but we have to face up to what needs to be done, and it's not going around saying captialism is in a re-run of the 1930s after 30 years of stagnation and that it's never been a better time to be a socialist.

 

[Swan]

I am not too sure if this thread is the right one to ask but could someone answer me;

Did the devolution issue affect how people voted in England?

 

[treelover]

I suppose this say it all, the blairites have more M.P's than the left

Gordon Brown's future is not in his own hands. It is in the hands of worried, angry Labour MPs who have been debating in private whether to organise a leadership challenge. More specifically, since there are not enough hard-left MPs to trigger such a contest, it is in the hands of around 40 Blairites. Among them, the message is becoming clear. There is good news for the prime minister: "We are not going to move against him," they say. There is bad news too. They add, "yet".

 

[Hocus Eye.]

When and if the Parliamentary Labour Party moves to replace Gordon, it will not come from the Left, which is almost non existent in parliament, but from the majority right wing. They don't see Gordon as being too right wing, but just a bad communicator compared to Blair. The likely contenders are all Blair/Thatcherite, but have not established their credentials and profile yet.

Brown was seen as an asset while the world economy was steadier than now. His carefully contrived image of 'prudence' was convincing to the PLP members, even if it caused one-time Labour supporters out in the world to get angry at cuts in public spending. Now as a result of oil prices going rapidly up at the same time as food and raw materials for manufacturing, the world economy has been badly damaged. These factors not within the control of any one country have combined to make Brown look ineffective, even though he is no longer chancellor. Make no mistake I have no sympathy for Brown though.

There is no effective left in the Labour Party. The Parliamentary Labour Party has for the last 20 plus years been to the right of the members in the country who used to try to put forward left policies to the Annual Conference. Now there are hardly any members who are active. At the same time Conference does not accept motions from members and is not a policy-making body, just a shop window.

The further cut back in support for Labour at the recent Local Elections will have pruned out what was left of a support base of activists. Activity in the party was based around local elections and led by elected councillors and candidates for election. My local party, which not so many years ago used to run the council, now has only one tenth of the councillors it had. Ward meetings have not been held for a few years and I don't know if they even have General Committee meetings any more. I left when Blair was elected leader. Non of the activists I knew from the the period ending in about '95 are around. I met one who was always a bit of a renegade, who has now found a home in the Green Party. The creation of a new left party is not likely to happen around here.

 

[nino_savatte]

The soporific effect of consumerism has weakened ideological politics on the left and the right. In a period of strong economic growth, this is particularly true for the left. The coming credit-crunch recession/oil crash/WW3 etc. will be fertile soil for radical politics on the left and the right.

The sad thing is that we were warned about all of this years ago. Consumerism has played a large part in the erosion of class identity because now, everyone can flaunt the trappings of wealth - if they have the income (or not, as we have seen).

 

[Poi E]

everyone can flaunt the trappings of wealth - if they have the income (or not, as we have seen).

And we are encouraged to, through a devastating combination of media's consumerist propaganda and readily available credit. Everything disposable, except the debt.

 

[mauvais]

I think the left that we want is inherently tied to failure. It inherently has no money, no ability to present itself properly i.e. spin & media, few great leaders, and no desire to con people into voting for something they might not otherwise actually believe in.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

When i see the massed ranks of the far left, anarchist, activist fraternity be as serious as this, even the greens don't seem to have these events I may reappraise my views.

JM has an MPs resources and reputation. The Greens should be running these events I agree. The broad left do, check out convention of the left which many greens will contribute to.

Come to think of it, the left are always having conferences of one sort or another.

One things for sure, left wing politics is not advanced by paying subs to, and campaigning for a corrupt right wing corporatist party.

 

[likesfish]

Why would anyone join a left wing party?
no power no chance of getting power and the old idea ideas didn't work to well

 

[RedRumsBum]

Yep. I'm very worried, personally. This country is very well set up for a slide into fascism if you ask me.

Don't be. The left is already in government. Get your champagne out and treat yourself! It's a nice day.

The working classes time and time again, rejected socialism. The only way the left could get into government was on a capitalist manifesto. New Labour is about turning the working classes against capitalism for a socialist Europe to come to the rescue via forced treaty of Lisbon.

I doubt there will be another general election and if by small chance it does happen it will be the last. I would love to be proved wrong but that's what I believe, especially when I look at how desperate New Labour was to get that treaty through despite no fucker wanting it.

 

[nino_savatte]

And we are encouraged to, through a devastating combination of media's consumerist propaganda and readily available credit. Everything disposable, except the debt.

Quite, look at Bush's 'economic package' to alleviate the squeeze: go out and spend your tax rebate on something useless.