The Left is a failure in the UK - but why? - A Friday poll for the less political too

[dennisr]

We won't change the facts just by refusing to look them in the face.

no, you face facts - you would not know what 'industrial work' is, you are a gutless feck who has spent the last few months here excusing your own failings by projecting onto a fantasy straw man you call 'the left'. but with nothing to add, nothing new - just 'it's all hopeless'

you are just depressed and tedious - sort yourself out befoe pointing any fingers at anyone else you sad individual

 

[Darios]

thats right...

remind me what the 'point' was again

do give us you 'insight' (including 'solutions')...

Jesus fucking wept.

Do you actually care? Is it worth me wasting my time posting a detailed response?

 

[Fruitloop]

The position is particularly gloomy here IMO because the apparatus of social control is so sophisticated, and the interests of state and capital operate in lock-step to a large degree. Other places have more elbow-room for alternative political ideologies, and lack the near flawless integration of state and capital that is such a feature of modern Britain.

 

[dennisr]

have some faith in people.

ain't that the truth

and that bit i quoted is exactly thew problem the doomsayers have

 

[Spion]

We won't change the facts just by refusing to look them in the face.

You don't look at facts. You always try to fit everything into your depressive mindset. Oil workers force their bosses to back down on a pension robbing scheme and you dismiss it as irrelevant. 10s of 1,000s of public sector workers go on strike and its not an encouraging development that could or should lead to more and better but a sign of a defeated working class. Sure, we can see the limitations of these manifestations but you ONLY see them.

 

[poster342002]

The position is particularly gloomy here IMO because the apparatus of social control is so sophisticated, and the interests of state and capital operate in lock-step to a large degree. Other places have more elbow-room for alternative political ideologies, and lack the near flawless integration of state and capital that is such a feature of modern Britain.

Spot on.

 

[dennisr]

Jesus fucking wept.

Do you actually care? Is it worth me wasting my time posting a detailed response?

For someone who is critical of others becasue 'they think they know everything' - you sound much the same as that you are critisising

and to delude yourself that folk will make some automatic link between some pissy local election results and the doomsday scenario you want us all to 'face up to' because the fantastic all seeing you makes a post, with no expalination of the link (only following on with arrogant crapulance about how feckin unserious we all must be) is frankly a bit weird on your part, pal

 

[poster342002]

You don't look at facts. You always try to fit everything into your depressive mindset. Oil workers force their bosses to back down on a pension robbing scheme and you dismiss it as irrelevant. 10s of 1,000s of public sector workers go on strike and its not an encouraging development that could or should lead to more and better but a sign of a defeated working class. Sure, we can see the limitations of these manifestations but you ONLY see them.

Come back to me this time next year and we'll see how far these "sucesses" go and how long they last if they're not torn up.

 

[dennisr]

Come back to me this time next year and we'll see how far these "sucesses" go and how long they last if they're not torn up.

kill yourself (you see we can all be cynical - I get like that as well, especially when folk seem to be a waste of air and space)

 

[Darios]

For someone who is critical of others becasue 'they think they know everything' - you sound much the same as that you are critisising

So I'll ask you again. Do you or do you not think that peak oil is a serious problem?

and to delude yourself that folk will make some automatic link between some pissy local election results and the doomsday scenario you want us all to 'face up to' because the fantastic all seeing you makes a post, with no expalination of the link (only following on with arrogant crapulance about how feckin unserious we all must be) is frankly a bit weird on your part, pal

Show me where I made that link. (E2a: Show me where I claimed that "folk will make some automatic link between some pissy local election results and the doomsday scenario you want us all to 'face up to' ").

 

[dennisr]

So I'll ask you again. Do you or do you not think that peak oil is a serious problem?



Show me where I made that link.

Yes I think the peak oil crisis is a serious problem

It is one of many interconnected problems

now run along

 

[dennisr]

Show me where I made that link. (E2a: Show me where I claimed that "folk will make some automatic link between some pissy local election results and the doomsday scenario you want us all to 'face up to' ").

apparently we are not serious and it shows how limited the 'left' are (unlike you with your one shot worldview)

you side with the idiots and you will get treated like one

 

[Darios]

Yes I think the peak oil crisis is a serious problem

It is one of many interconnected problems

now run along

So what is "the left's" response to this, especially in the light of the government's head-burying-in-sand?

One thing most of the 'peakers' seem to agree on is that we have left it far too late to make the required structural changes in our society. As a result the peak is going to hit us very hard and there are going to be a lot of losers. Fuel and food rationing is likely. Is the left equipped for this?

 

[Darios]

apparently we are not serious and it shows how limited the 'left' are (unlike you with your one shot worldview)

you side with the idiots and you will get treated like one

This is hilarious coming from the person who has responded to two people on this thread already by saying "kill yourself".

 

[mk12]

So what is "the left's" response to this, especially in the light of the government's head-burying-in-sand?

One thing most of the 'peakers' seem to agree on is that we have left it far too late to make the required structural changes in our society. As a result the peak is going to hit us very hard and there are going to be a lot of losers. Fuel and food rationing is likely. Is the left equipped for this?

The left should organise itself into militias to fight the inevitable fascist dictatorship which will take over this country within months.

 

[dennisr]

This is hilarious coming from the person who has responded to two people on this thread already by saying "kill yourself".

actually I am responding to months and months of the same broken record from a couple of tedious twats. i do irony

 

[dennisr]

The left should organise itself into militias to fight the inevitable fascist dictatorship which will take over this country within months.

absolutely

 

[dennisr]

Is the left equipped for this?

I can only speak for myself but yep - defo (once the election results are out of the way like - bring on the apocolypse)

 

[Crispy]

The left should organise itself into militias to fight the inevitable fascist dictatorship which will take over this country within months.

Don't know if you're being serious, but it will not take months, but a period of 10s of years, if it happens.

 

[dennisr]

Don't know if you're being serious, but it will not take months, but a period of 10s of years, if it happens.

thats a relief to us all...

 

[Firky]

People will look back on 2008 as we look back on Germany in 1933.

 

[mk12]

Don't know if you're being serious, but it will not take months, but a period of 10s of years, if it happens.

OK. That gives us a bit more time. Thanks for the heads up. Can you buy AK47s off ebay?

 

[dennisr]

OK. That gives us a bit more time. Thanks for the heads up.

(nod and a wink - T34s - Peshawara market - got the contacts to ensure a good price - lets go for the peoples tank)

 

[Crispy]

thats a relief to us all...

I think you misunderstand me. I thought mk12 was being flippnat and implying that the 'doomsday scenario' would happen overnight, with swastikas unravelling down the side of big ben and the army running out of every train station to arrest the deviants.

So, I clarified my position. Which is that, historically, fascism has been a response to crisis conditions that seem outside the control of the state.

I forsee crisis conditions outside the control of the state, therefore I forsee the possibility of fascism. I am willing to be persuaded that it is not likely. I'd very much like to be. But persuade me, don't dismiss me.

 

[Darios]

I can only speak for myself but yep - defo

Really, can you specify how?

Depending on which geologist you ask, the peak has already occurred, or will occur by approximately 2010.

From here on in it's an ineluctable and continuing increase in the cost of living, with no corresponding increase in wealth. With each passing month, *any* disruptions to the ever decreasing supply will have ever greater impacts.

How do you propose that "the left" (if only for your own case) deals with such energy insecurity and the ever increasing ranks of social casualties that will result from it.

 

[Darios]

I forsee crisis conditions outside the control of the state, therefore I forsee the possibility of fascism. I am willing to be persuaded that it is not likely. I'd very much like to be. But persuade me, don't dismiss me.

Seconded.

 

[bluestreak]

I think you misunderstand me. I thought mk12 was being flippnat and implying that the 'doomsday scenario' would happen overnight, with swastikas unravelling down the side of big ben and the army running out of every train station to arrest the deviants..

Well I for one salute our new Britreich overlords.

 

[dennisr]

I think you misunderstand me. I thought mk12 was being flippnat and implying that the 'doomsday scenario' would happen overnight, with swastikas unravelling down the side of big ben and the army running out of every train station to arrest the deviants.

So, I clarified my position. Which is that, historically, fascism has been a response to crisis conditions that seem outside the control of the state.

I forsee crisis conditions outside the control of the state, therefore I forsee the possibility of fascism. I am willing to be persuaded that it is not likely. I'd very much like to be. But persuade me, don't dismiss me.

no i think i understood you and was being as flippant as mk12 - I think you are ignoring the population of this country - historically the victory of fascism has been the result of a terrified capitalist class countering mass workers offensives - fear of revolutionary upheavals. The ruling classes experience was not entirley 'positive' though - world war , genocide and all that so they would be more likely to back a good ol traditional military dictatorship. The wannabe fash dictators may be waiting a while before the boss man picks them for a 'special task'. I think working people will take a bit more than 50-odd BNP councillors being elected on a tissue of lies to petty local government positions (out of I don't know how many thousands of seats) before they are 'crushed' under the jackboot of fascism. I think you should get a bit of perspective on it - uncomfortable though it is for us both

 

[dennisr]

How do you propose that "the left" (if only for your own case) deals with such energy insecurity and the ever increasing ranks of social casualties that will result from it.

So you don't want yo waste your valuable time - but you seem determined to get me to waste mine?

Get back to your dragons mate - and i'll get back to me flippant comments on petty elections

 

[Darios]

So you don't want yo waste your valuable time - but you seem determined to get me to waste mine?

Get back to your dragons mate - and i'll get back to me flippant comments on petty elections

In other words you have NO answers regarding this issue.

QED.