The learning an instrument thread.

Discussion in 'music, bands, clubs & festies' started by xenon, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    It was invented by Bach so he could spell his own name in melodies. (Not really, but he did do it).
  2. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    oh yeah! That explains a lot. I'm missing h/b'''
  3. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    And a good example of a Baroque era composer messing around with tonalities :)
  4. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    This was literally just a question on Mastermind.

    bimble and existentialist like this.
  5. keithy

    keithy or queefy

    Do people think lessons or self teaching?
  6. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    Lessons with a decent teacher are a good way to avoid obvious bad habits at the start, and will probably speed up the learning process. Ideally, the teacher would be one who's interested in encouraging you to develop your skills independently alongside the lessons rather than just slavishly doing as they tell you.
  7. keithy

    keithy or queefy

    I would need somebody who won't try to stop me being over ambitious and creative
    mojo pixy likes this.
  8. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    Definitely. When Mrs E took her daughter to a local piano teacher, she asked him how much practice he thought she should do. He said "as much as she wants to, and if she doesn't want to practice, I'm not doing my job". Find a teacher with that attitude, and you're home and dry.
    mojo pixy, Fez909 and keithy like this.
  9. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Oooh, good thread!

    About 20 years ago I did a little pottering with dance music production. Always thought I should have a go at learning piano but never did... Fast forward to a couple of days ago. After reading great reports about the latest Logic Pro, I took the plunge and downloaded (wowza... bit different than a few decades ago :) ). And then today, fiiiiiinally, ordered a (budget) fully weighted 88 key controller, which arrives tomorrow.

    Got to grade 4 theory at school. So I can remember some basics of chord 'formations'.

    Not sure if I can quite afford Piano lessons yet, so might have to try an online course. Or maybe it's a false economy?? Hmm.
    xenon likes this.
  10. littleseb

    littleseb littleseb

    B major.
  11. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    I’m finding I improvise chords... then end up looking them up on a chart to work out their names (though major and minor are fairly obvious just by the harmony).

    So there’s two I’ve improvised that I really like, that don’t seem to be on the ‘top 11’ list or whatever.

    Clearly I’ve headed straight into prog-rock territory. :eek:
  12. HoratioCuthbert

    HoratioCuthbert Suspected murderer of Tupac murder suspect

    people say all the best musicians are self taught, but I think if your "work ethic" is shit a teacher might help- I am self taught as I play by ear but only really good at bass, as soon as mum couldn't afford piano lessons for example any more I stopped dead at grade 2. I need someone to tell me to get tunes learnt :)
  13. HoratioCuthbert

    HoratioCuthbert Suspected murderer of Tupac murder suspect

    However if you want to write your own tunes don't even stress about perfection, you'll find the process of inventing your own stuff takes you places all the learning will never get you to.
    paolo likes this.
  14. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Yeah I’m quite happy pottering around on a keyboard ‘finding’ things.

    I can’t improvise real-time, but discovering melodic combinations, chord progressions. I really enjoy that.

    But (seperately from my electronica), I also want to be Ludovico Einaudi :)
    HoratioCuthbert likes this.
  15. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    Oh, yeah. Whoops. B minor would have been H-moll
  16. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    The ‘keyboard’ arrived.

    I’m both marvelled an intimidated. Only ever pissed around with other people’s stuff. “Just a laugh eh!”.

    This is mine.

    I’m hapless. I can put chords together but the left/right timing is appalling.

    This is fab. :D
    SpookyFrank likes this.
  17. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge Without music, life would be a mistake.

    I'm relearning my right hand technique in a more classical style. I'm trying to stick to the old-fashioned free stroke method of playing, walking the fingers strictly in a one-two (i -> m) rotation on melody lines. It's surprisingly difficult after four decades of my own more haphazard method, especially in 3/4 and when changing to a lower string (higher doesn't seem to be a problem).

    Because I'm unlearning years of bad method, it's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head then vice versa.

    I'll get there though, and it should improve my polyphonic playing.
  18. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    The booking person for a gig I'm down to do asked for a recording of us. So we knocked out a couple of numbers ("Summertime" and "Where Do You Go To, My Lovely"), and recorded them.

    That has been quite a learning experience! On the plus side, it's interesting to see how my improvisation skills are coming on - there's some quite clever stuff happening, and considering I don't know what I'm going to play before I play it, and don't really remember what I've played afterwards, the recording is very useful.

    On the other side of it, though, it's quite uncomfortable listening to the technical mistakes, but well worth it: already, I've spotted a couple of areas I'm going to need to do a little work on. I think I might start recording myself a lot more...
  19. dialectician

    dialectician The Main Enemy is at home.

    want to get back into piano again but i really dislike braille music.
  20. paolo

    paolo Well-Known Member

    Basic question, you’re not sighted enough for conventionial sheet?

    In my ducking of proper learning I still enjoy just making chords and melodies just by feel.
    Lupa likes this.
  21. xenon

    xenon A move in any direction

    Hey dialectician
    Have you seen this new program for reading music, using a screenreader / braille?
    The IBOS MusicXML Reader

    I haven't tried it yet. Trouble registering with a site to download xml scores. But this could be really useful. TBH I can't read musical scores but if the notes are simply written out and I have the piece to listen too.. The rest is just effort and patients.

    Oh yeah, whilst I remember. On a tangent. You've tried Reaper IIRC? Have you seen this then too? This stuff is great. I've been playing with Reaper for a little while now. I love it.
    CiscoVision Wiki Skynet Mirror | Main / Audiogiveaway
    dialectician likes this.
  22. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    Had my first proper lesson today. Got a 61 key MIDI keyboard a few days ago and I've been practising scales. Think she was surprised...apparently no one likes doing scales?

    Anyway, all good so far. My fingers were all wrong, which wasn't apparent because I was only practising one octave at home. Bang a second in there and suddenly everything's in the wrong place. I guess this is what a teacher gives you that YouTube doesn't. I thought I was doing OK on all the major scales. turns out I'm not even that good at any of them :)

    Practising now. #fridaynights :cool:
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    danski, danny la rouge, Lupa and 2 others like this.
  23. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    That "no-one likes doing scales" thing. It's true, certainly in the classical training tradition, because they sold scales as some kind of obligation. I hated scales, but I was always a bit conflicted, because I actually liked the logic and order of them.

    And, when - much later - I started to move over into improvised music, I found myself, without knowing it, finding scales the true essence of being able to play more with less. Now, when someone says that they (or, more often, their kid) is wanting to move across in a similar way, the first thing I tell them is to learn to play the pentatonic scale in every key imaginable. I reckon that, once that's part of a musician's default mindset, there really isn't much, improvisationally, that they won't be able to do.

    So count me as a +1 for being delighted that you're getting into scales. Oh, and learn to play the pentatonic scale in every key imaginable :)

    ETA: oh, and also the dominant and diminished 7th scale. They're handy for when you're improvising and end up on the wrong note because you got the chord change wrong, or you don't actually know what you're improvising against :D

    Dominant 7th

    Diminished 7th
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    Fez909, Lupa and Pickman's model like this.
  24. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    Yeah, I guess most people "learn piano" because they want to play piano and/or look cool or whatever. I want to learn music theory, not piano, but I think learning piano is a great way to do that. So I want to do the scales and understand why things work together and why they don't etc.

    I'm doing piano lessons because I want my electronic music to sound more...musical. I doubt I'll need much theory/many lessons to achieve the kind of musicality most electronic music have. But even more will be better...and bonus, I'll be learning the piano as a side effect :cool:

    So yeah, theory, practicing the boring shit...that's why I'm there. I'm probably a piano teachers dream with my current attitude (we'll see how I am in a few weeks/months) :)
    What do you mean by this?
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
  25. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    Coming over to the dark side. Freeing yourself from the dots :D
    Lupa and Fez909 like this.
  26. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    You mean jazzin' it up? :)
    Lupa likes this.
  27. existentialist

    existentialist The sausages need an explanation

    That generally starts to happen some way along the road, yes :D
    Lupa and Fez909 like this.
  28. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    Does gospel music have its own scale, like there is a blues scale? Maybe it's the same scale? I've been struggling to define exactly what kind of music I want to learn, but tbh, if I could knock out gospel riffs like this then I'd be happy enough:

    Lupa likes this.
  29. xenon

    xenon A move in any direction

    I'm still not good at doing 2 octaves with both hands silmultaniously.

    DO you know about the circle of fifths Fez909?

    In the major scale startinf from C, the next major scale, 1 fifth up, (G) has one sharp note in.
    Fifth up from there, (D) has 2 sharps
    Then A major, 3

    Also, 3 notes down from your major, you have a nicely corresponding minor. Not sure what the theoretical term is. But A minor corresponds with C Major. And something about perfect fifths...
  30. Fez909

    Fez909 toilet expert

    I watched a video on it earlier tonight, but I've had drink/drugs so not much was taken in. The only thing I can remember is root note + 7 half-tones/steps. And then draw a circle from that. I can't remember the point of it, though.

    Something about changing key without it sounding jarring?

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