Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by ruffneck23, Dec 13, 2017.
About as daft as Luke lifting his ship out of the mud on Dagobah
No, far, faaaaaar more daft. She looked like Mary SpacePoppins.
As I said in one of my first posts, I'm all for Leia using the force, it was just poorly executed/filmed in this case.
gods, I thought it was a majestic scene. oh well.
No it wasn’t.
Yes it was. She's heard and felt things before - Luke in Bespin and Han's death but this was the first time she "used" it.
OMG! Luke's right! I just used the Force to move a pencil on my desk! Just a few millimetres, but it worked!!!
I just used the force unintentionally. Farted and followed through.
...is strong in this one, etc.
Right, own up. Which one of you on this thread is actually Mark Hamill?
We are all Mark Hamill
You misunderstand the true nature of the force.
I didn't like that they were allowed to use the beehive hits on Skellig.
And I was actually sitting there thinking " this is awful" when I saw it today, but with hindsight I am starting to revise my opinion.
Pray I do not revise it further.
Just musing on this now, it occurred to me that despite Poe's recklessness the (entirely valid) "shut up and let the women talk" plot didn't come off all that well when you remember that his decisions led to the destruction of one "dreadnought", Snokes 60Km wide star destroyer, and at least two other standard star destroyers. It just wasn't well written. I'm all for putting the hothead in his place but that subplot took up half the movie and came across as a sensible "hail mary" move.
Do you mean via Holdo's desperation light speed charge? Are you crediting that to Poe?
Well, it was obviously improvised and not part of the original plan. Like I said, Poe is a reckless glory seeking fool, not someone you want in a leadership position. I just don't think that point was made well.
There probably hasn't been an army anywhere on a war footing where he wouldn't have been taken off and summarily executed for his actions. The rebellion are quite an enlightened lot I guess.
I keep calling them the Rebellion, but I think they are just called the 'Resistance' now, huh?
I think they used 'rebellion' and 'resistance' in this one.
I think Poe is a tit....
looks like april when HD version will come out on torrent. a long wait.
I'm not a star wars person but I liked it, even if it was a bit clumsy in places.
Every single SW film to date has been clumsy in places (and had plot holes aplenty too). Some people seem to have short memories as far as the original trilogy is concerned.
to be fair though the Holdo's plan was absolute bullshit. How were the troop carriers supposed to be invisible? There's a scene where rey and snoke are looking at the rebel fleet through their telescope thing in the throne room. The fleet are clearly visible. They didn't need to pick them up on scanners, they could SEE them. Maybe they were cloaked but then if that's the case why was Poe so skeptical of the plan? if the carriers had cloaking dvices then surely he'd be down for cloaking the fuck out of there and leaving c3po to sacrifice himslef in the kamikaze run.
Poe was right to think Holdo was nuts.....also, in a universe with possibly sentient droids wondering around it's really dumb to think that the rebel battelship didn't have autopilot on it. Why did holdo have to sacrifice herself? Poor cow, i bet she was hoping someone would do a Rose and save her at the last moment. Sorry Holdo, no one loves you enough to save you.
Holdo's plan worked in spite of a terrible script.
I came out asking myself which had the greatest emotional impact on me....
Luke and Han dying? Or Yondu's death in Guardians of the Galaxy 2?
I don't mind admitting I nearly cried when Yondu said " He may have been your father, boy, but he wasn't your daddy"
Star Wars is like one of those bands that release a great album then wait too long to release a mediocre follow up. Rogue one was great, the other two were average....about as much fun as watching one of those underworld movies with whats her face from porridge.
Finally got to see it this afternoon ( the last treat of my Xmas break ). Read some of this thread but not all so sorry if I'm rehashing others thoughts, which is somewhat like the film:
They have TOTALLY run out of ideas and are just rehashing everything over and over to milk us of our cash.
Rey in dark rocky hole = Luke in the tree in Empire
Snoke + Kylo v Rey = Emperor + Vader v Luke in Return, (they even had the lightsaber on the armrest thing going on)
Millennium Falcon going in and out of mine = Millennium Falcon dodging the asteroids in Return
First Order v Rebels final battle scene = Hoth attack (this one was quite blatant) salt for snow (ffs!) defenders sat in a trench, small fighters v Walkers...come on.
So Kylo Ren becomes new Vader and Rey is Skywalker, on and on and on we go, generation after generation.
Having said all that, the opening battle scene was enjoyable and Snoke's ship was a kickass, space-faring, humungous, B2 Bomber....nice.
I can never say anything bad about Benicio Del Toro, and he was probably the most interesting character but also reminded me a bit of Boba Fett, someone dodgy on the edge of the story, he was good.
But the earlier clip above with Hamill says it all. Luke wouldn't go out with a whimper, or they at least should have had more story, going into the next films maybe, about how he became so cynical. One realisation about Kylo being a bit of a git doesn't cut it.
So the story just moves on a generation but is basically the same. I really liked Rogue One, but then as that was so wedded to New Hope it was an actual extension of Star Wars proper, TFA and Last Jedi are just rehashing old plots.
Benicio Del Toro was Lando without the redeeming features.
Del Toro? Not awful, but a bit too much mugging for the camera.
Del Toro breaks my suspension of disbelief, he's so obviously Benicio Del Toro!Didn't like him in GOG either but esp when he just happens to be a master hacker/cracker lounging around in the cell they happen to be locked up in.
then he procedes to casually break out of the cell.....wht the hell was he waiting around for? just passing the time of day?
They mentioned they had a ship.
I've been thinking about Game of Thrones..something like 64 hours of epic story telling, expertly planned out and structured, with coherent story arcs, pacing, tone, acting levels etc. Compare to what the Star Wars series is at present. If you take the 8 episodes together its a total mess, but even if you just take Disney's 7+8 it still feels like a rambling mess.
George Lucas wrote the first three in near enough one go and they sit together well as a trilogy, and they pass the GOT benchmark test - everything within them is coherent (with a bit of a wobble in Return of the Jedi). With the new Disney versions there is no over-arching plan or vision. Each new film has a new writer picking up where the last one finishes and going wherever they want. Its a little like playing that fold and draw game, consequences.
Some of the best films ever made are written and directed by the same person. I am genuinely surprised that this happened on the Last Jedi. Although there are some genuine bits of vision in this new film ultimately it still feels massively bitty and box ticking for demographics.
Its interesting that in this thread people feel drawn to make pros, cons and meh lists, breaking down the film into little components - its like reverse engineering what is a very engineered story. I think thats no coincidence as its a film made up of lots of (often incongruous) elements. I also have a list of little bits i liked, and then a long list of little elements i didnt. The film writing lends itself to that because thats what it is, elements squashed together.
Before watching this I fancied a little Star Wars hit so I watched for the first time the Han shoots first Star Wars original theatrical release (with no CGI). Its not worth trying to compare it to any modern film, let alone a Star Wars film, but it does pass the Game of Thrones test of being well paced, clear narrative, everything fits neatly together. You don't come away from it saying I like this bit this bit this bit, but not that bit or that bit or that bit. Thats because it was the result of a single clear vision that wasn't pandering to multiple expectations (and generally was just a great bit of film making/writing).
Ultimately with Last Jedi I didn't feel like i got lost in a film, i felt like i watched a slightly tortured process of trying to keep the Star Wars franchise going. Almost every couple of minutes something happens that broke any suspension of disbelief. Seeing it on a big screen and (reluctantly) on 3D also showed up the acting as weak (though this is more a fault of the writing/dialogue). This is the last time I'm going to see a Disneys Star Wars film in a cinema - it belongs on a home screen on a Sunday afternoon with a few stiff drinks. The big screen cinema experience just shows up all the problems going on. I still have a tiny bit of hope for the standalones to go off and do something unusual and interesting.
My Good and Bad element list has a lot of stuff already mentioned but id add
-Orphans stuff reminded of Michael Jacksons Moonwalker
WTF are r2d2 and cpo still doing in these films? Pointless. Im rooting for Kylo Ren to kill all of it off and make a new slate. Seriously disappointed Leia didnt die in space ffs. Groaned throughout. High time to purge the old stuff.
John Williams is going to need to write some new themes as the Star Wars music of old doesn't suit these new films or characters. They did it with Bond and they need to do it here. John is still alive and working so they might be in luck there.
The socio-politics (arms dealers, Kylo's nihilism, female leaders stuff, freeing wild ensnared animals etc) is sort of welcome but its still feels like an inserted element rather than a true beating heart, and its tone is nearer MJ Moonwalker version of social justice than anything else.
As if there wasnt enough to break suspension of disbelief when Rose and Finn get kicked out of the casino for parking violation they get issued a 27B/6 - the famous bit of paperwork from Brazil. Its not clever, its just annoying...
moan moan moan!!
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