Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by ruffneck23, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. 03gills

    03gills Professional Cockwomble

    I've barely seen anyone critical of the film for those reasons.

    In fact the only time i hear that is from critics who seem to be weirdly obsessed with painting objections to this film along political lines.

    Or best of all, being told the reason some didn't appreciate this movie is because they just didn't pay enough attention in philosophy class.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    S☼I likes this.
  2. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    Diversity? In space?

    By the way... we don't serve droids in here.
  3. ruffneck23

    ruffneck23 Well-Known Member

  4. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Monkey Boy

    Y'know what, Luke in his X-Wing would have cheered me was there, under the sea at Skellig Michael...
    03gills likes this.
  5. chilango

    chilango *shrugs*

    FAO all you crying about Luke passing, or cheering ‘cos some little green ET muppet thing got a few lines or gone no about Lando or whatever...Kylo’s spelled it out.

    "Let the past die. Kill it."
  6. ruffneck23

    ruffneck23 Well-Known Member

    just because some emo character in a film says something, doesnt make it true :p
    YouSir, Lazy Llama and Yuwipi Woman like this.
  7. 03gills

    03gills Professional Cockwomble

    If this was JJ's film, that's probably what would've happened. But TLJ feels like it was catered more towards discerning film critics, rather than fans.

    It feels with Johnson like he was so worried about subverting expectations & not doing what fans were expecting that he forgot he was actually making a Star Wars film that's supposed to be part of a cohesive trilogy.
  8. SpookyFrank

    SpookyFrank Ridin' a Stutz Bearcat, Jim

    For the next one JJ Abrams is just going to crowdsource the plot by simply mashing together a load of half-baked ideas posted on message boards. Luke will come back from the dead, as will Carrie Fisher somehow, C-3PO will get a big bollywood dance scene, every line of dialogue will be 'I've got a bad feeling about this' and there'll be some kind of mass genocide of ewoks.

    Star Wars 'fans' will look upon the atrocity they've created and still bitch about it, thus missing the point entirely.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
    NoXion, kabbes and Favelado like this.
  9. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Monkey Boy

    So, after 24 hours of feeling a bit disappointed by the latest Star Wars film, I have taken a more relaxed view.

    I feel that the film was mostly let down by trying to tell too many stories in one go. All stories that could have been better told across two films.

    Some bits were great fun, and the Rey/Ben ruck with the red dudes was a fine enough action sequence.

    Not sure about Snoke (he wears a bathrobe and hangs around young people that he has summoned to his room - Harvey Weinstein!!!!). I felt like I did about Maul after he was so prematurely wiped out. Why?

    Liked that Ben has got to a point of saying 'yeah, I wanna fucking rule, so fuck all this old shit, I'm bringing my own game on'.

    Liked Del Toro's character. Liked Rose.

    I love seeing Chewie, but maybe his story is over now, and C3P0 and R2D2. to shoe horn them in added nothing to this film. I wanna see those guys, but doing something of value and not just hanging around.

    Luke - I don't believe Luke would consider killing a teenager in the dark, it undermined his story for me. I think losing a nephew to the dark side would have been enough for him to doubt himself and just take himself into exile. To make Luke the reason Ben tips over could have worked, but it didn't work the way they did it (for me)

    The Salt planet stuff looked great. The space battles were fun.

    Perhaps I am just getting too old for Star Wars now.....although I did get goose bumps seeing Luke's X-Wing, said out loud 'no way' when he fluttered off at the end, and was really pleased to see Leia centre stage (other than the Poppins bit).

    Didn't get Laura Dern's character at all. Dressed like she'd been to Abigail's Party. Didn't she have a more practical outfit?

    The jokes; I like jokes in Star Wars, but laughed less during this than any previous, and I think because the jokes were too rooted in our everyday, they felt too modern day and knowing. There was always something slapstick and innocent about Star Wars jokes.

    The gambling planet place adventure was just not very good, and seemed like a throwback to the prequels. Hated the Never-ending Story creatures and the kids, and all of it.....just a real distraction. Finn could have sat this one out. he didn't need a daft story invented to give him something to do.

    We needed Lando. Where was Lando.

    Plasma. Why? No need. Just have done with it. There's no character there. It's an attempt to make a Boba Fett and it has failed. Finish it.

    Porgs. No. Sparkly xmas foxes. No. Irish Frog Nuns. Yeah, they made me laugh.

    BB8 - R2lite

    So, having had some time I can say I did enjoy it, I didn't enjoy it all, and not as much as Force Awakens, and a few less story lines (and not trying to tell everyone's story all at the same time) would have given the film space to breath.

    It's Star Wars. I'm always gonna come back for more....
    kabbes, 5t3IIa, S☼I and 2 others like this.
  10. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    Agree with a lot of this, especially the humour. The odd but was funny (Luke casually chucking his lightsaber over his shoulder) but most of it felt forced and not rooted in the star Wars world. The opening 'comedy' scene probably turned me off the film from the start.

    And that reminds me, they went all out with the world war 2 in space thing didn't they? How exactly do you drop bombs in space? :D
  11. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    The inside of the ships have gravity. Provided by some magic generator I guess as they don’t use spin to generate it.
    Notice how they all walk around rather than float.

    The bombs inside were flung out by that gravity. Once free of the gravity they carry on through space via inertia in the direction they left the ship.
  12. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    Saw it today and absolutely fucking loved it. Miles better than The Force Awakens.

    Here is why:

    1- The movie subverted expectations at every point and never got predictable. There were really some great twists in the tale. TFA by contrast was Star Wars by numbers.

    2- The relationship between Rey and Kylo was brilliant.

    3- Had a sense of darkness and peril not seen in any Star Wars movie but Empire Strikes Back.

    4- Kylo Ren has a depth and complexity not seen in previous villains, and you do root for him sometimes.

    5- Changes what we know about the Force, and exposes the Jedi caste of the Old Republic as a hypocritical elite. This also redeems the prequel trilogy somewhat by changing the story of the Star Wars saga to be about a priestly caste who had to be destroyed by Vader to restore balance and democratise the force. This retroactively changes some of the shit elements of the prequel trilogy (tedious politics etc) into a meaningful critique of a decadent society on the verge of decline. It even makes the movie a comment on the disappointment of the prequels - the Old Republic was a disappointment to us, just as the Jedi were to Luke who was, like us, sold a glorified version given by Obi Wan. The entire movie is then about the rebirth of hope and the rebirth in a faith in the Jedi myth. It is really super meta and kind of incredible when you think about it.

    6- Glimpse of the venal imperial elite on the casino world, and hints of a class struggle about to be waged by the slave kids against the so-called 'worst people in the universe', (the rich who profit from the wars) which is gonna be awesome.

    7- Luke's island is well realised.

    8- The scene with Kylo and Rey fighting the guards is amazing

    9- The jokes were good, some nice laugh out loud moments

    10- I enjoyed the salt world with the red mist, and the return of the AT-AT walkers
    BigTom, T & P, Lazy Llama and 4 others like this.
  13. seventh bullet

    seventh bullet red mullet

    The lightsabre fight in the throne room was great.
    krtek a houby likes this.
  14. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    I loved it, but as always with SW movies, they always rush through the inevitable aliens-in-a-bar sequence far too quickly for you to take in the glorious range of creatures.
    Shame they killed Luke off - he was the most interesting character in it. Rose was cool too though would have liked to have seen more character development of her - glad they didn't kill her - hope we see more of her in the next films.
    Not quite as good as Return Of The Jedi, but I would put it second out of the eight so far.
    seventh bullet likes this.
  15. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    why are some people using spoiler tags on a spoiler thread? :facepalm:
  16. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    Dying from a strenuous and intense yoga session is not really a hero's death - it could have been a bit more dramatic than that
  17. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    I thought it was quite fitting. He came to the Skellig to die and achieved that. Also he projected himself across the galaxy, that must have taken a lot of effort from him.
    NoXion, BigTom, AverageJoe and 2 others like this.
  18. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    I wish people would just use the titles of the films, rather than acronyms. It's pretty lazy and can confuse people who aren't familiar with them
  19. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    Erm, Luke does die
  20. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    pseuds corner beckons
    YouSir and seventh bullet like this.
  21. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    I must have missed that - what happened?
  22. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    One thing I noticed is how much they had Chewbacca sitting down in the film - Peter Mayhew is getting on, so it's nice of them to do this.
    Sea Star and SpookyFrank like this.
  23. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    Iron shaped ship about to land... on some First Order uniforms... nice visual gag
  24. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby how's it going to end?

    I think the role was played by Joonas Suatano in this episode with Mayhew as a consultant...
    Orang Utan and ruffneck23 like this.
  25. ruffneck23

    ruffneck23 Well-Known Member

  26. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    Two articles which encapsulate why I liked this movie so much. First, it is the most left wing movie of the series and democratises the force:

    Anti-empire, pro-activist … The Last Jedi is as left wing as Jeremy Corbyn | Toby Moses

    Anti-empire, pro-activist … The Last Jedi is as left wing as Jeremy Corbyn

    Toby Moses
    The latest Star Wars film is an unlikely champion of the grassroots – and it’s not even subtle about it

    What have The Last Jedi and Jeremy Corbyn got in common? There’s the penchant for silly hats, and a love of cuddly critters – but that goes for any of the series’ previous entries too. No, what the new Star Wars film and the Labour leader really have in common is that they’re both as red as Kylo Ren’s lightsaber.

    Whether you’re a fan of the latest instalment or not – it’s impossible to deny that it’s a revolutionary entry into Star Wars canon. And not just because it’s the first of the series to pass the Bechdel test. If its predecessor, A Force Awakens, shook things up with a female lead, a black co-star and a Latin-American heartthrob, this film takes it to a whole new level of progressive fantasy, taking aim at capitalism, the Trump regime, and the very notion of heroes.

    There’s a delicious irony to the fact that director Rian Johnson, funded by corporate behemoth Disney, has used this most capitalistic, money-grabbing of platforms to plant the seeds of anti-fascist, anti-capitalist egalitarianism in the minds of the world’s young. It’s not a subtle message, either. There’s a whole sequence set in an intergalactic casino where the only thing of any import we learn is about the evils of unfettered capitalism – only the wicked get rich, and it’s by selling arms to both sides. Ring any bells?

    The shape of our stories has ramifications far beyond the boundaries of their fictional universes. Disney must take its share of the blame for the princess obsession, just as Star Wars feeds into our innate desire for hero narratives. But not any more. The Last Jedi has a clear message: anybody can be a hero, so there’s no excuse not to get involved in the fight. The very last shot of the film (again, spoiler alert) has a young boy, enslaved by that malevolent casino, casually using the force to whisk a broom into his hand before staring up at the stars. It’s a direct echo of Luke Skywalker gazing up at the dual sunset in the 1977 original – but unless the boy turns out to be a long lost clone of Darth Vader, it’s a radical shift.

    No longer do the Skywalker clan hold the hopes of the galaxy in their perpetually unreliable grip. Now it’s down to all of us, even the most lowly stable boy, to rise up against the evil empire. And who heads up that evil empire? A white man of course. But he’s also the spawn of the galaxy’s most famous family, and the son of a princess. It’s the danger of over-privilege writ large.

    If the original trilogy was about waiting for a hero to rescue the world from a tyrannical, authoritarian regime, and the prequels were an (albeit hamfisted) attempt to examine how democracy can easily mutate in to dictatorship, then this new trilogy had looked set to simply repeat what came before. After Episode VII all the questions were about the parentage of our new hero, Rey. She’s a Skywalker, surely? Or a least a Kenobi. Perhaps there’s a little Yoda in there somewhere?

    But no. And by shrugging off that mystery, and revealing her parents as galactic wastrels of no import, who sold her off for booze money, Johnson’s entry has rooted the future of the series in a populist framework of how to defeat tyranny through community. Not only are dynasties over, they’re actively dangerous. After all, this isn’t the first of the Skywalker clan to wreak death and destruction, and the last of that bloodline has become, apparently, an irredeemable villain.

    In the age of Trump, Brexit and general hopelessness, this is something we need to hear more than ever – waiting around for a hero to fix the world simply won’t do. We all have the responsibility, and capability, to improve things – no matter where we are from. The only way the resistance will win this time is if we work together and recognise the talents and potential of all people.

    It’s a message we need on both sides of the Atlantic. Donald Trump is an obvious villain, embarking upon a journey of obviously fascistic behaviour. The wave of mass protests already seems to have woken liberal America from any complacency that might have existed before the 2016 election. But it’s a lesson we need in the UK too – we can’t rely on somebody to rescue us from this Conservative government if we won’t put the effort in ourselves. Too much of the Labour party has been stuck in the thinking of the 70s original, waiting for A New Hope to lead them in to the light – whether it’s David Miliband to the right, or Jez to the left. But it’s in the grassroots that the future for both Labour and Star Warslies. We can all be the hero, we just have to believe we can be the change we want to see in this world, as well as a galaxy far, far away.

    No matter what we’ve been told, in countless hero narratives over the centuries, we’re all capable of weighing in and playing our part. Whatever you may think of the Last Jedi, that’s a good message to send kids home with for Christmas.

    • Toby Moses is assistant editor on Guardian Opinion[/quote]
  27. Rimbaud

    Rimbaud Well-Known Member

    And secondly, it fixes the prequels by fitting them into a wider arc.

    'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' Redeems the Prequels

    NoXion and kabbes like this.
  28. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Monkey Boy

    That's all fine......but doesn't explain the never ending story creatures turning up...
  29. YouSir

    YouSir Look out Laika, it's Earth.

    Saw it last night and enjoyed it, although it felt a bit crowded plot wise and the jokes fell a bit flat for me. Did strike me though that the whole series is more or less the Skywalker/Organa/Solo family fucking things up for the entire universe. Final film, if one ever comes, should just be a load of pissed of nerf herders and droid maintenance workers storming some Jedi palace and purging the lot of them, aristo style.
    ska invita, Rimbaud and Badgers like this.
  30. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    Rimbaud likes this.

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