The Last Jedi : BEWARE SPOILERS YOU SHOULD

Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by ruffneck23, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Monkey Boy

    Basically, it's a good joke that works in the environment it's set. It's not a telephone 'on hold' joke that is aimed at us in a Galaxy far far way from that galaxy where I've never seen a telephone, or a galactic call centre.
     
    emanymton and ska invita like this.
  2. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    tbf with that joke i think the idea was he was trying to buy time for something? it cuts to some kind of bar going up and when it reaches full he breaks off? It wasnt set up clearly so you have to fill in the blanks. With some slightly better writing it could've worked....though, personally, on top of all that I find Poe very unlikeable...just doesnt have the charm or character depth. He is responsible for a lot of comrades deaths in this film and he just acts completely two dimensionally no matter what is happening. I don't blame the actor, its the way he's been written. You could argue he's meant to be 2d as thats who he is I guess...but that reinforces why i dont like him on screen.

    Poe's actions and consequences kill all but him of a squadron of their last few x wings and then his mutiny etc leads to the destruction of all the other rebels in the massacre of the transporters - its a major part of the film and the conflict with him and the female commanders is a massive part of the story telling (nothing forensic about this) - they tried to make a heavy handed point about all this
    Yet he 2D's it all the way despite all that supposed drama
     
    SpookyFrank likes this.
  3. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Monkey Boy

    Totally agree. He is supposed to be the 'Han Solo' of the new trilogy, and he is a just a dick.
     
    ska invita likes this.
  4. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Doesnt Laura Dern/Holdo say towards the end something like " he's so impetuous - I like that guy"....er, he's just got you and 98% of the remaining rebels killed lol.
     
  5. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    I guess it depends on how you take it in. If you go looking for inconsistencies and holes you will find them, but if you just enjoy it as a spectacle, then it doesn't matter, and you don't see these supposed faults.
     
  6. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    What did you think of the prequels? Were you able to Just Enjoy them?
     
  7. DexterTCN

    DexterTCN Well-Known Member

    The director tweets a response to the Luke/astralprojection complaints....

     
  8. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    God no, they were terrible. I found them difficult to follow, especially the last one. Bad bad storytelling.
    You said in an earlier post that the writing in The Last Jedi was 'objectively bad', which is clearly untrue, and laughable when compared to George Lucas's writing. You're holding this film up against Star Wars, most of which is terribly written and full of implausible deī ex machina. Why were you able to suspend your disbelief with Parts IV-VI?
    (I think I know the answer - cos you were a child when you first watched it - we have a generation imprinted on Star Wars and who can't step back and see what hokum they were)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  9. Vintage Paw

    Vintage Paw dead stare and computer glare

    Interestingly, him indoors was talking to some of his students about Star Wars and they like the prequels and don't like the original trilogy. The thing about what we watch as children is spot on imo.
     
    NoXion and Rosemary Jest like this.
  10. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    I myself imprinted on Flash Gordon and James Bond films, thus I have a critical blind spot when watching those
     
  11. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    true to a point but then a film studies course would take 2 minutes and ask What Films Did You Like When You Were Young: they're the good ones.
    All films from before 2000-odd seem really boring and lame to lots of young people today - different attention spans. People like all kinds of crap. Some of the biggest box office films in recent years have been the Transformers movies. Lots of people like them. Doesn't stop them being total shite.

    You can be objective about these things. The Plinkett rip-apart film-by-film analysis of the prequels are spot on and properly in depth criticism based on film quality rather than sentimentality or star wars logic-failures. They're genuinely bad films, and most people agree on that. At least George Lucas tried something different though.

    I enjoyed Force Awakens and happily enough bit my lip through the couple of sillier bits, but then Force Awakens was basically a remake of Star Wars and benefited a lot from the successful writing and structure of that film. Disney weren't taking any chances on that one. There were some new ideas in there too tbf. Rogue One was good too, but a bit drab. I'm open to these new films, Im not just wrapped up in nostalgia
     
    5t3IIa likes this.
  12. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    You could equally do such a forensic analysis of the other films and find them wanting in the same ways though
     
    NoXion likes this.
  13. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    It was an improvement, rather than a remake
     
  14. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    but not through the silly bits in the other SW films?
     
  15. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    I watched the original Star Wars films as a child, and the prequels as an adult, and the new ones as an adult with a mortgage, and I like them all. They're all flawed, but I like them in the way that you like people you are friends with, in spite of their flaws, and sometimes because of them.
     
    NoXion, spitfire, S☼I and 3 others like this.
  16. CNT36

    CNT36 Not carbon nano tubes

    Perhaps it was just a shit Silent Running reference. Blowing yourself up so that the last of something can survive.
     
  17. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    Well they are obviously idiots and are objectively wrong. Seriously though no one can claim that the originals are masterpieces of film making, but they are simply better films than the prequals.

    I'm not sure I do buy this idea that what we watch as children is what we like. There will be an element of truth in it, but there is lots of stuff I liked as a kid/teenager that seems shit to me now. James Bond films for example, my god goldfinger is dull. But I still like the original Star Wars films, not as much as when I was younger true, but I still think they are decent films.

    As for the last Jedi. I think my problems started with the opening comedy bit. Which felt more like something from a comedy sketch show doing a star wars bit than an actual star wars film. The humour in a scene like that really comes from the juxtaposition of something from 'our world' taking place in the world of Star Wars. That can work in a comedy sketch, or an out and out comedy, but has no place in an actual Star Wars film as far as I'm concerned. Maybe this is part of why I disliked it so much. The opening scenes should be when you buy into a film, and I just didn't, I was at odds with the film right from the beginning. Maybe if it had got straight to the space battle I'd have been more engaged and more willing to go along with the rest of the film and might have enjoyed it more?
     
  18. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    No, you are objectively wrong.
     
    Orang Utan likes this.
  19. MrSpikey

    MrSpikey Well-Known Member

    I think you'll find there are many who question the official Death Star narrative.

    On the day of the explosion, 90% of the TIE fighters that should have been available to deal with the attack were diverted to participate in simulated "war games". Coincidence? I think not.

    It's a proven fact that a simple reactor explosion can't generate the energy required to disintegrate the structure as claimed.

    A group of Wampas were seen celebrating on a nearby planet as the Death Star exploded. This clearly indicates to any right-thinking person that the actual perpetrators were a collaboration of natives from their home planet - The Hothschilds.

    Wake up, people!
     
    NoXion, krtek a houby, kabbes and 2 others like this.
  20. Ralph Llama

    Ralph Llama ERROR 23 : DEFAULT MODE NETWORK COMPROMISED Banned

    Christ dies, then ....
     
  21. Gromit

    Gromit International Man of Misery

    It’s almost as if the lead engineer deliberately incorporated a design flaw to make the Death Star vulnerable.

    Although you’d be dumb to even entertain that as a plot narrative. Silly.
     
  22. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    ^^What I came on this thread to say. Each and every word from beginning to end.

    Although this isn’t contradictory — it’s the reason for the flabbiness remarked on above. I agree with it too.

     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  23. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Luke Skywalker has been my lifelong hero. The unglamorous farm boy who dreamt of exciting things and then found the reality of them not to be what he was hoping for, but who retained his heart in spite of everything. And despite being beaten down in the 30 years since RoTJ (Just as Ben Kenobi was between RotS and ANH), Luke Skywalker in this film was fucking awesome, just as me as a child would have hoped Old Man Luke would grow up to be. His superlative ability with the force to use such a wide scale doppelgänger Jedi skill finally shows us Luke as a hard core Jedi master and was totally a fitting way for him to win the battle he chose to fight. His realisation that the Jedi were nothing more than an elitist fairy tale was perfect. I loved Luke then and I loved him now and he will always be my hero.
     
    BigTom, emanymton, S☼I and 4 others like this.
  24. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    I don't think it is fair to say that Ben was beaten down between RotS and ANH - there is a really profound sense of an individual sacrificing his potential in the hope of something that may (or may not) be true. If Disney do decide to go ahead with an Obi-Wan movie I very much hope that this heroism isn't abandoned, although I suspect that the potential for a further show down with Vader may prove too tempting.
     
  25. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Between AOTC and ANH might be a better period. I am referring to the canonical Clone Wars series as well as the events of the film as illustration of how Obi-Wan gradually changes from being a starry-eyed happy-go-lucky believer in the Republic to eventually realising how the Republic itself has a rotten core.
     
    Beats & Pieces likes this.
  26. Santino

    Santino lovelier than lovely

    Is that camp Hutt with the southern US accent canonical?
     
  27. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Let us not talk of such things.
     
    emanymton likes this.
  28. MikeMcc

    MikeMcc Well-Known Member

    Because if she realized that they could do that, why doesn't everybody do it? Why have the ridiculous (though spectacular) bombing sequence, if you can smash entire fleets in a fraction of a second?
     
  29. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    I don't know as I wasn't thinking about that when I watched it. all this is stuff that most people are unaware of and care nothing about
     
  30. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    It’s clever the way you know what most people are unaware of and care nothing about.
     

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