The Last Jedi : BEWARE SPOILERS YOU SHOULD

Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by ruffneck23, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    Actually the production was a bit of a mess, with lots of unused scenes and last-minute rewrites. The film we know as Star Wars only really came together in the edit, for which we have Marcia Lucas to thank.

     
    NoXion, kabbes, Schmetterling and 2 others like this.
  2. no-no

    no-no Small robot you know

    Ah right, still...he can casually break out of the cell but can't steal a ship?
     
  3. emanymton

    emanymton A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.

    He does steal a ship. And he doesn't wait for them either, so no I don't think it makes sense that he suddenly decided to leave then because they had a ship.

    More likely he was pissed got banged up in a cell was sleeping it off and got work up by them. That makes more sense then much of what happened in the film.
     
    Dom Traynor likes this.
  4. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    It was very weak, terrible acting and apart from a few scenes all rather silly. Also, IMAX/3D shizzle hurts my head and eyes.

    Might work for Blue Planet or something but this just annoyed the fuck out of me.
     
    Rosemary Jest likes this.
  5. cybershot

    cybershot Well-Known Member

    Re watched with a friend who hadn't seen it, upon second viewing:

    The Good

    • The space fights were great, although I don't quite understand why you'd have bombers in space!

    • Rose adds a new dimension, a sensible engineer type head to the team, which probably makes sense as Rey is obviously far too interesting now to be be seen as someone that can suddenly repair some injector couplings on the Falcon like in TFA, so that part needed a new character, and she's also quite charming, some excellent casting there that also in the real world is good, as a seemingly every day normal woman is seen as a solid engineer and someone that can get her hands dirty with technical stuff. Should become the more inspirational character going forward for young girls rather than voodoo wielding Rey.

    • DJ the code breaker, I get we haven't seen the last of him and strikes me as the sort of new Lando.

    • Yoda and the burning of the Jedi books temple. To me this scene sort of made connection with modern day realisation that religion is a load of rubbish and causes nothing but wars. The force can be found in anyone and everyone, and I hope this is the way they go with Rey, that she is just a normal girl, from a normal family, and that her parents were indeed just poor people. Proving that blood lines and religions mean nothing and that everyone has the power inside them to be something amazing. I believe this is also emphasised in the very last scene in the film with the young boy on the 'casino planet'

      Also kind of touched upon in why was Luke training of the force. Why would he bother teaching a load of regular kids the force?

    • The Casino planet, showing that there's still a class of people, and that the rich profit from war. Again giving the story a more modern and realistic take, although this wasn't really explored upon much.

    • Kylo's desire to kill the past, which also vibes with the above.

    • Seeing that Rey and Kylo can get to each other obviously opens the door to a very long story arc of who will turn where, but this is Disney now, so we know how that is going to end.

    • To see Snoke defeated already made his character look weak and nothing like the original emperor, this should allow Kylo to take the helm and now separates the movies going forward to being too much like the original trilogy of having this 'masterful emperor' calling the shots from afar.

    • Carrie Fisher, almost every scene with her in made you feel emotional, probably part of the reason I enjoyed the film more than others, because I felt emotionally into it.

    The Bad

    • Leia, for the first time finally uses the force to save herself from impending death in outter space. Most of us were probably thinking as we sat in our seats that this was her death scene, but clearly not. It seemed an odd way to finally see her use the force.

    • Laura Dern, who seems to pop up in everything takes over, whether she was carrying on Leia's original plan or not, but what seems daft is that her plan really isn't that much of a plan, so why on earth did she decide to keep it to herself. Even if she told Poe and the others the plan the likelihood was that Poe would have gone and done what he did anyway due to him being the hot head swash buckler that he is. It made her character not be likeable, and I don't like not liking a Laura Dern character because she's ace.

    • Luke's death. At this point I thought the film should already have ended. Yes the whole planet scene was very much Empire Strikes Back, and perhaps if they had started the next film this way then it would have been considered even more of an Empire ripp off, but personally I think the planet scene would have been a much better way to start the next film, than how to end a film. Or at least starting the next film with Luke's death could have been more meaningful as a new film progressed rather than being a not very good way of ending a film with little explanation. If he intended to die, why not just do it in person rather than from a far.

    • Chewie, R2 and C3PO are barely in the film, if you're not going to use them going forward, please just find a good way of writing them out of it. As a result the humour in the film falls flat on it's face.

    • The length. As kind of pointed on in Luke's death, the film goes on for a bit too long.

    Kind of wish Rian Johnson was doing the next film, I think he has opened up the story to be something much more than just force light vs dark, where as JJ is just going to do another fan service.
     
  6. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    You Tube has just had to buy some new servers to deal with all the Last Jedi Is Shit videos

    Rotten Tomatoes scores:
    Force Awakens: Critics 93% Audience 88%
    Rogue One: Critics 85% Audience 87%
    Last Jedi: Critics 90% Audience 49% (thats lower than the prequels which score around 55-60% audience ratings)

    i agree with the audience (though id have the prequels on 10%)...also why i gave up reading film critic reviews a long time ago (in newspapers far, far away)
     
    03gills likes this.
  7. 5t3IIa

    5t3IIa Registered User

    The hacker with the actual didntcatchthename flower on in the casino was Justin Theroux and I was v excited to see him as he’s not in enough stuff. But they ran straight past him and into yet another slightly tedious BDT cameo :rolleyes:
     
  8. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    I don't take either for granted. Even less so since the advent of the altright/ 4chan lot, which will go out of their way to influence opinion of films they deem offensive to their worldview.

    I have no problem with lots of people not liking TLJ. But I do find the audience approval rating disparity between TFA and TLJ inexplicable to be honest. And as you mention that the prequels get 50% plus approval, I'm happy to disregard audiences as a bunch of simpletons.

    Perhaps it's an age thing.
     
    Vintage Paw likes this.
  9. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    I get why there's such a big difference, and I think its basically justified.
    Force Awakens may have had some annoying JJ Abrams trademark over the top unrealistic action sequences in it but it ultimately trod very safe real-Star Wars territory and didn't fuck anything up too badly, and set up new characters for the future of the series....there's meant to be a Star Wars film every two years indefinitely, so punters were happy enough with the predictability of the story line/soft reboot nature of it in the name of kicking off the series anew on a good foot. Mass relief at it not being anywhere near as shit as the prequels also helped.

    This one however is so full of things that if you stop to give them any thought make no sense or otherwise annoy, that what feels like the majority of Star Wars fans - who very actively engage with the ongoing storylines and arcs - have been left seemingly in despair. I'm no Star Wars "fan", ive never given that much thought to any of it, but I do like the original films, understand what Star Wars is and how it works, and was really up for giving this series a chance and hoped they'd be good. But that feels over to me now. Last Jedi was ridiculous and annoying on so many levels that I no longer trust them to tell a story that holds up, so I feel I will no longer engage on the same level (but no doubt will still give them a torrent watch eventually when I need distracting). I think a lot of real Fans are feeling that same step down, and as they're so into it its hurting them.

    I've no idea why but its still bugging me. Unintentionally I cant stop thinking about it. The more I think about it, the more I remember what I saw, and the shitter I think it was. Looked incredible of course, amazing production, some good intentions in there, but in reality I think the majority of the time there was some degree of nonsense going on on the screen, and for those people for whom the plot/dialogue is the most important bit they feel the most let down .
     
    Beats & Pieces likes this.
  10. MikeMcc

    MikeMcc Well-Known Member

    My biggest bugbear in the film was the deux ex machina moment of Dern using the transport and the Hyperdrive to shred the First Order fleet. It wasn't just the big brute of a destroyer that got thrashed but most of the supporting Destroyers. If it was that easy why was nobody just putting automated hyperdrives onto asteroids and annihilating any invading fleet?
     
    kabbes and BigTom like this.
  11. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Every single big action moment has some kind of nonsense element to it...im tempted to write them all down but theres so many i cant be arsed. Knowing how Star Wars fans like to pore over the details its driving them mad i think
     
  12. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    It's just a film about space aliens. why should it make sense?
     
  13. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    because logic in story telling is important if you want to create any sense of consequence
     
    NoXion, kabbes and PursuedByBears like this.
  14. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    only if you go looking for it, you can also decide to just enjoy it
     
  15. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    if by looking for it you mean paying money to sit infront of a big screen and paying attention for 2hrs, then yes, thats the problem - i went looking for it. and thats why i wont be doing it again. By all accounts 10 year olds love the film, so im happy for them, but it is basically a saturday morning cartoon now

    by your logic all art is equal and all you have to do is decide to enjoy it - its all in the mind! Cant get on board with that.
    The amount of switching your brain off required to enjoy this film was ridiculous - every couple of minutes you have to internally say "allow it".
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
    NoXion and ruffneck23 like this.
  16. Orang Utan

    Orang Utan Sub-Sub-Librarian

    nope, i was just talking about this kind of film - the daftest and most ridiculous of all films/genres, yet it gets such a forensic examination by its supposed fans. it's hilarious.
     
  17. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    its not that forensic really - the stupid stuff jumps out at you if your eyes are open. Crucially the original films didnt suffer from this problem - it can be done and fans want it done again. Well the ewoks stretched it, but up until then it added up by its own logic for the most part, and carried some emotional weight and sense of jeopardy as a result
     
  18. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    If Han and Leia can walk around in the stomach of a giant asteroid space worm with just a face mask on and Ewoks can defeat the empire's crack troops, then Holdo can lightspeed kamikaze the fleet. It's fine.
     
  19. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    the odd thing you can excuse/ignore, but in this film i found it relentless - physics is one occasional problem which usually you give a blie too, but it comes on top of bad comedy, hamfistted political points, messing up characters motivations and arcs, jumbled tone changes, painful attempts to include things from old films, plot holes, undoing things set up in the past, endless yeah but why didnt this then thoughts, why would they do that thoughts, no one in control of long-term narrative across the trilogy, generally bad writing etc etc its relentlessly shit in myriad ways i think

    ewoks clearly went down a kids path...
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  20. Lord Camomile

    Lord Camomile Lemonade socialist

    I think the issue is not that the idea is fantastical, but that it raises the question "why is that not an established battle tactic?". If they can send objects through other objects at light speed, why don't they have drones to do that? Even if it's a question of size, something as relatively small as an X-Wing has light speed capabilities - automate one of them and then boom's your uncle.
     
    emanymton likes this.
  21. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby The end is meh

    Space wizards, Death Stars that can be blown up easily and stormtroopers who can't shoot proper. Doesn't really make sense but I love it.

    A "fan" has edited the latest instalment to reduce the female characters impact :facepalm:

    Star Wars: The Last Jedi cast mock 'men-only' fan edit

    It reminds me of school antics "no girls allowed" etc.
     
  22. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    I reckon a SW writer could conjure up a perfectly credible explanation involving anything from ship size to the ships' proximity to each other to the defensive shield not having enough time to reconfigure its settings to deal with the incoming ship as it was too close, to many potential other explanations. And it it was well thought out and explained, most people would happily buy it.

    Let's not forget that virtually every SW fan in history has been more than happy to overlook arguably the biggest fallacy of them all in the entire saga: that a single measly torpedo could destroy a moon-sized battle station. If Rogue One hadn't been written, everyone here would presumably continue to be happy to ignore such massive plot hole.

    And let's not forget Starkiller Base in TFA, which stretches one's suspension of disbelief to its very limits on various fronts.
     
  23. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby The end is meh

  24. no-no

    no-no Small robot you know

    It should make internal sense. Good scifi should ask us to supend disbelief on a few matters and then the rest of the content should be consistent otherwise it's like listening to a kid make up a story.
     
    kabbes likes this.
  25. no-no

    no-no Small robot you know

    tbh I think it could have done with more humour, i found the prequels serious yoda to be a bit booooring.
     
  26. Reiabuzz

    Reiabuzz Banned Banned

    well that was the worst use of 14 hours or however long it was ive ever had. and ive had surgery with no general anesthetic.
     
    Rosemary Jest likes this.
  27. Nanker Phelge

    Nanker Phelge Monkey Boy

    The jokes were out of whack with the Star Wars Universe. The call on hold joke was funny, but it didn't fit.
     
  28. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    The fact there are jokes in both Last Jedi and Empire does not mean they are both equally well executed.
    In the original films humour was placed well in moments that developed characters personalities or helped defuse the end of dramatic sequences - in which genuine drama had been built up. Last Jedi just drops it in all over the place ignoring the overall mood or needs of a scene.
    Yoda's training sequence in Empire is a wonderful bit of patient character writing. His switch from playing foolish to wise master is genuinely great writing. Yoda's deliberate foolishness is a test on Luke already. And it tricks the audience in making an assumption - the joke ends up on us for judging him. The comedy serves a purpose.
    Absolutely nothing compares to it in Last Jedi in terms of writing quality. The whole sequence is far too slow and engaging to be allowed anywhere near Last Jedi.

    Last Jedi is objectively really poor writing. Empire is a film that could be studied in film school. Last Jedi only as examples of errors not to make: there isnt a single sequence in the film that holds water to the last.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    emanymton likes this.
  29. krtek a houby

    krtek a houby The end is meh

    There's precedent for amusing calls, though :)

     
    NoXion likes this.
  30. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    another great example of good appropriate use of humour: shows a lot about Han's character, creates tension: his panic becomes our panic etc. Humour serving the overall film. It can be done.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
    emanymton likes this.

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