Discussion in 'books, films, TV, radio & writing' started by ruffneck23, Dec 13, 2017.
Spoiler thread for those who have seen it...
Right, I can now return to this thread.
Loved the first 20-30 mins, then it started to drag, then it turned into Return of the Jedi.
Lots to enjoy, but ended up feeling a little disappointed.
As previously, thought there were some potentially interesting ideas that ended up being rather squandered.
More to follow, no doubt...
Why did Laura Dern not tell anyone her plan? What was the point in the failed mutiny that ended as quickly as it started?
Showing how strong Leia is with the force? Grand. Doing it by making her look like a space witch/Mary Poppins? Didn't land for me.
Snoke ended up being... no-one?
Thought the relationship between Rey and Ren was interesting; the idea of these two young force users, on different but also similar paths, both looking for someone to guide them and instead finding each other... But I thought they didn't really explore it or follow through as much as they could. Couple of scenes, but then it just went back to fighting each other.
I hate those stupid little what I believe are called porgs. And I liked the ewoks.
Great to see Chewie flying the Falcon... solo, if you will. Ruined by the porg.
What was the point of Maz, the whole hacker thing. Just to give Finn something to do? Maybe I'm missing character development stuff, but plot-wise it didn't really do much. And if you want to give Finn a reason to become more brave and heroic, there's better ways to do it.
From t'other thread.
I’m going in 8 hrs 52 minutes
I enjoyed it but wasnt blown away and prefered TFA if im honest, I'm with Lord Camomile on a few points
The Bad : the Leia thing was just stupid , as was using the force over distance, why didnt the emperor or Vader do this? , seemed like showing off for showing off sake ? Phasma didn't need to be in it and as for Snoke ,completely wasted. Finn was completely underused and Rose as sweet as she was , was still a bit rubbish.Rey's parentage.
And Lukes death didnt have anywhere as much resonance as Han's
The Ok : Didnt mind the porgs , the humour was just ok
The Good : The space battles were awesome , R2 sorting Luke out was a nice look back. Kylo Ren wasnt too bad in this one , shows he can act.
I think I will have to see it again at some point
Yeah, Phasma was definitely underused. Could have been another strand to enrich the story, in the end it was slightly cheap character-development/plot for Finn.
I didn't mind Rose at all (for some reason her sister's death rather got to me, even though we'd only known her for all of 30 seconds), but I just felt their whole sub-plot was rendered pretty pointless. I mean, I suppose you could argue that in real life plans don't always play out perfectly and are rendered inert, but just feel like even if that's the point you want to make it could have been done better. They ran to a planet, ran around for a bit, got captured, then ran back to their vessel, only to be caught again. And for what? Nothing really advanced, except the two characters had an adventure together that I suppose is supposed to develop the relationship between them and, in turn, that between Finn and Rey.
Also agree about Luke's death. No problem with him Jedi-fading - that guy has had quite the arc and we've been there with him for most of it) but it seemed a bit... rushed? Missed? I dunno, just missed the mark a little.
Also, didn't like the flashbacks. Just don't think they fit in the SW universe.
Yoda should either have been used better or not in it too. It was nice to see them back together (much like Luke and R2, actually - Mark Hamill seems to be pretty good at developing relationships with puppets ), but like a lot else it seemed more fan/nostalgia service.
I prefer this to Force Awakens, I came away from it feeling like I'd been entertained by a spectacle whereas leaving TFA I felt disappointed and annoyed by what turned out to be such a lost opportunity to reunite some of my favourite characters. I wasn't expecting much from this one and was pleasantly surprised but yes, certainly some bad points.
I thought Ren & Kylo were going to team up as some all-powerfull intergalactic yin and yang duo of the force to knock the First Order & Rebellion's heads together to point out the cyclic & pointless nature of the ebbing and flowing of their conflict - a point also made by the exposing of the arms traders getting rich selling to both sides.
totally forgot about Yoda til then , which is weird as when he turned up a huge grin on my face also turned up lol
more thoughts , benicio de toros (sp? ) character didnt seem right, seemed to be trying to do a Lando at could city switch
the more i think about it the more im picking holes in it
However was still much better than the prequels
I thought that too , well hoped
Deathstars, always have a design flaw. Should have gone on Rated People.
I really enjoyed it.
Spoiler: The Nihilistic streak
Kylo’s desire to kill the past. That Rey’s parents were nobodies (though I’m suspicious about this). Del Toro’s character was ace (hopefully he’ll reappear st some point) and the arms dealers arming both sides. Luke chucking the light sabre wordlessly off the cliff and the whole end the Jedi religion vibe. The pointlessness and seeming dead ends of some of the action.
Surprisingly good. There was a moment where he cast a glance at Hux for repeating his orders. Class.
Spoiler: Luke’s Island
well realised. The milk scene
Rose Tico was cool.
I like the ending.
Spoiler: Kylo & Rey
The whole Kylo/Rey psychic connection was really really annoying and Snope’s claim if responsibility for this felt inadequate. I still fear for a brother/sister reprise here.
Flying thru Space? Stupid.
...and the Porg were mercifully peripheral.
edit: cos me and the spoilercode are not on the same page.
this completely, i liked it but felt empty afterwards , , im a bit down about it lol , still lets see how it pans out
Carrie Fisher being centre stage for much of the film was sad and a bit weird, because...
edit: ffs! What am I doing wrong with this twatty spoiler code!
Gah: another fail. The force is not strong in this one.
you dont need it here but...
then end it with( [/spoiler} ) brakets not included
Shurely, 'need it here you do not'?
yes, right you are
Well in the spirit of spoilerdom: It was obviously poignant having Carrie Fisher on screen, when much of her character's dialogue was about getting older. But the weird/sad bit was that she was also the bereaved.
Fuck me, I knew I shouldn't have clicked on this thread having enjoyed the movie. I knew it - people on Urban only go to movies in order to moan about them - and I still forgot. Doh.
There were no significant similarities to Return of the Jedi BTW. Don't think you can have paid much attention to the original films if you can say that. But I can't be arsed going over the rest of it or giving my own positive opinion knowing that you lot'll just tear it apart.
Throne room - supreme leader - Sith Lord/apprentice - novice Jedi they want to seduce to the dark side, that in turn is trying to bring back the Sith Lord/apprentice to the light side - "I've seen the good in him"/"he is conflicted" - "look at this battle currently going on in space where your friends are dying and have no chance" - Sith kills supreme leader...
Admittedly he killed Snoke for different reasons to Vader killing Palpatine, but by that point I was already disappointed they'd done so little with it. He even said "we can rule together"; he just missed off "as father and son"!
That's just off the top of my head, pretty sure I counted others too.
I was aware that most of my posts were gripes and complaints. There was stuff I liked about it too - as I say the first 20-30 minute space battle was brilliant, proper dogfights, genuine threat of "holy fuck, this is impossible" BUT most importantly coupled with genuine loss. I think to be honest after that start I just got deflated that the rest didn't live up to it.
Plus it's much easier to gripe
not long got back from watching this. honestly, i reckon its all getting a bit silly now! i fell asleep and missed some of it to be fair, but found it somehow unsatisfying and the plot twists were all pretty obvious and the 3d didn't seem to add much either. fair enough i know i'm not the target demographic, but i came out wondering why i bothered tbh, though i quite liked some of what i percieved to be biblical or Nietzsche-ian allusions. also, i suppose i'm a bit cynical, couldn't help thinking those cute little furry creatures were only in the film so they can flog boatloads of 'em. its clear there's gonna be about 500 sequels, which is fair enough, looked like the other cinema goers (all young men) were really enjoying it so good luck to them (one bloke was conducting his own light saber fight in his seat.)
That's not exactly a lot, is it? And do you think they were in Return of the Jedi? Really?
It's just occurred to me, why are we covering everything in spoiler quotes when this is the spoiler thread!?
It was a mess. Some really fantastic bits spoiled by stuff like the nonsense on the casino world and the tedious island training.
It's the climax of half the damn film! You've got the Resistance v First Order, and you've got the Kylo/Snoke v Rey/Luke thing. They spent a good amount of time there, and it featured many of the same beats and plot points as RotJ*.
*RotJ - usually shortened to "Jedi" (like "Empire" and "Hope"). Ep VIII has fucking ruined this I'm sure this has been raked over in the build up, but I ignored all that so I'm raking over it again!
Ah, I see - to be honest I was reading on my phone and didn't pay much attention so my brain kept acting as if you were talking about ESB (but writing ROTJ instead) because that's what everyone what is saying So sorry for that. But really that is hardly any similarities and, as you say, there were significant differences.
Thanks for the explanation about acronyms though. Someone called scifisam posting on the internet in 2017 on a Star Wars thread obviously wouldn't know something like that.
Great thread, all!
Sorry, that wasn't intended as an explanation aimed at you, more a musing aside regarding the confusion between Jedi and Jedi.
Oh, and if you want to talk Empire - blatant Hoth analogues in the final seige. They even had to have someone say "oh, it's salt" as if to ram home "it's not snow, it's not Hoth, we're not on Hoth!!".
Separate names with a comma.