The humiliation of the UK being butt-f*cked by Iran.

[Belushi]

But you are the most vindictive, aggressive and warlike person I have come across on this message forum.

Bollocks, I can think of plenty of posters more vindictive aggressive and warlike than VP

You don't realise that if you magnified your actions, as if you were a head of state, you would be a Stalin, a Mugabe or Pol Pot. You Sir are an odious dangerous person.

ROFLMAO

 

[TAE]

It is the embarrassing sense of powerlessness, both personally and our country as a whole. There is nothing we can do.

When an allied soldier breaks down an Iraqi door and searches the house, the owners of that house feel exactly the same.

 

[xenon]

Why do peple think the Iranions have done this?

I've not heard any demands regarding exchanges with US held prisoners. Interestingly a letter has been passed to the British ambasador. It's contents not been made public. Must contain something of substance.

The rest. Parading prisoners for the media, letters conceiding accidental trespas. These are just to humiliate the UK. And a little national ego boost for themselves.

 

[TAE]

Why do peple think the Iranions have done this?

I think someone somewhere has made a mistake and it is not easy to back out now. Hard to know which side made the mistake, because there is simply not enough reliable info. If it was not a mistake, things might take a nasty turn soon.

 

[xenon]

Yep. From this end. It doesn't look particularly well organised if there was a plan in mind. Of course others have speculated it could be a few IRG members operating unilaterally and the Iranion leadership has been taken by surprise. Now just reacting and trying to temper the more radical elements within, whilst trying not to lose face.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Violentpanda, you really crack me up, you are the big anti war man.

Really?
Have you ever solicited my views?
Or are you, as always, jumping to conclusions?

But you are the most vindictive, aggressive and warlike person I have come across on this message forum.

That's nice, dear.
You're entitled to your opinion of me.
My opinion of you is that you're willfully and woefully ill-informed.

You don't see the irony in this. Your anti war stance is not genuine in my view.

It's hard for something to be genuine when it doesn't exist.

But rather a means to attack people and politicians you hate more.

Hate? Why would I bother to hate "people and politicians" whose arguments I can dissect and show to be fatuous? Hatred would be a waste of energy.

Your many accusations about the sort of person I am, are designed to dehumanise me.

Accusations such as...?

To take away my right to have an opinion.

I don't wish to deprive you of your right to express an opinion, but when you express one that proceeds not from a grasp of facts, but from jingoism, then I reserve the right to formulate an opinion on your opinion.

You don't realise that if you magnified your actions, as if you were a head of state, you would be a Stalin, a Mugabe or Pol Pot. You Sir are an odious dangerous person.

And you sir, are a windbag who, in your post, has indulged in many of the "crimes", you've accused me of.

Congratulations on that, you've done more to show yourself up as an idiot than I could possibly have done. Thanks!

 

[Roadkill]

Yep. From this end. It doesn't look particularly well organised if there was a plan in mind. Of course others have speculated it could be a few IRG members operating unilaterally and the Iranion leadership has been taken by surprise. Now just reacting and trying to temper the more radical elements within, whilst trying not to lose face.

Tbh, the longer this saga drags on, the more baffling it gets.

How consistent are these 'letters' from Leading Seaman Turney with the hypothesis that it was a mistake and that the Iranian government is trying to make the best of it without losing face? They're not stupid; they must be aware of the likelihood that using prisoners like that is likely to inflame the situation further. What sort of game are they trying to play?

 

[goldenecitrone]

You don't realise that if you magnified your actions, as if you were a head of state, you would be a Stalin, a Mugabe or Pol Pot. You Sir are an odious dangerous person.

At last, someone has recognised the true tyranny of VPs stranglehold on these boards. Now, if we can only come together and rise up we can finally overthrow this ruthless cyber demigogue. Do not be afraid brothers and sisters. Together we are strong.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Let's make something clear.

Covert violations of another nation's territorial integrity in situations such as this are part and parcel of any modern conflict. During the Falklands war we staged from Chile into Argentina several times on both intel-gathering and sabotage missions. It is plausible even if the naval boats didn't stray into Iranian waters that one of the merchantmen they boarded was being used as a "dead letter drop" for intel purposes. We just don't know.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tbh, the longer this saga drags on, the more baffling it gets.

How consistent are these 'letters' from Leading Seaman Turney with the hypothesis that it was a mistake and that the Iranian government is trying to make the best of it without losing face? They're not stupid; they must be aware of the likelihood that using prisoners like that is likely to inflame the situation further. What sort of game are they trying to play?

A long game.

I'm suspicious that, contrary to what Whitehall are noising about, the Iranians actually "have the goods" on us. It would go some way to explaining their apparent belligerence if they were operating on the basis of having either caught the RN in flagrante delicto so to speak, with intel-gathering eqpt or with intel itself. Why else take the risk of alienating the few friends they have in the international community?

 

[ViolentPanda]

At last, someone has recognised the true tyranny of VPs stranglehold on these boards. Now, if we can only come together and rise up we can finally overthrow this ruthless cyber demigogue. Do not be afraid brothers and sisters. Together we are strong.

Add yellow lemon's name to "the list".

 

[London_Calling]

And to Barking Mad, that quote by Erich Fromm, is very well put, but I ask you what is Britain's nationalism compared to Iran's?

Nothing compares to the nationalism and misguided self-belief of the people of this country, I'll offer one simplified example.

If you speak to people of any other country excepting, of course, the USA, it is almost impossible for them to contemplate invading - I mean INVADING - other countries in the 21st century. You know, all that death and tanks and collateral damage and carpet bombing . . it's absurd to even contemplate that could possibly be a solution to anything anymore. The developed, almost post-industrial, highly educated world has long since moved on.

Anyone, Scandies, Germans, French, southern European . . . anyone around the world. Why would you want to INVADE other countries, what is that all about ?


Yet Blair tells the British people some country several thousand miles away may have WMD - really, like most other countries already have - and the majority of the country unpack the bunting, dress up the village halls and re-live the Battle of Britain; this kind of response is an integral part of the national identity. They've learned how to respond because they've seen it a thousand times on their tv screens. It's part of the glory of being British, we're always on the right side, we always win and, by God, we do it with dignity, humility and a proper sense of duty.

But out there in the real world, this knee jerk wartime response to transparently bogus propaganda is utterly insane. The developed world left all this behind decades ago, except those who seek empire and continue to propagate an Anglo-Saxon vision of the world that doesn't exist and never did exist.

And what was/it all about ? Oil.The need of the empire to control the supply of oil.

 

[amatis]

Nothing compares to the nationalism and misguided self-belief of the people of this country, I'll offer one simplified example.

If you speak to people of any other country excepting, of course, the USA, it is almost impossible for them to contemplate invading - I mean INVADING - other countries in the 21st century. You know, all that death and tanks and collateral damage and carpet bombing . . it's absurd to even contemplate that could possibly be a solution to anything anymore. The developed, almost post-industrial, highly educated world has long since moved on.

Anyone, Scandies, Germans, French, southern European . . . anyone around the world. Why would you want to INVADE other countries, what is that all about ?


Yet Blair tells the British people some country several thousand miles away may have WMD - really, like most other countries already have - and the majority of the country unpack the bunting, dress up the village halls and re-live the Battle of Britain; this kind of response is an integral part of the national identity. They've learned how to respond because they've seen it a thousand times on their tv screens. It's part of the glory of being British, we're always on the right side, we always win and, by God, we do it with dignity, humility and a proper sense of duty.

But out there in the real world, this knee jerk wartime response to transparently bogus propaganda is utterly insane. The developed world left all this behind decades ago, except those who seek empire and continue to propagate an Anglo-Saxon vision of the world that doesn't exist and never did exist.

And what was/it all about ? Oil.The need of the empire to control the supply of oil.

Brilliant post.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Brilliant post.

Slightly contradicted by the number of people who were opposed to the Iraq war but there you go...

 

[amatis]

That can be but his point is that outside the UK-USA nobody would think about their own country as the agressor in a war. It is a laughable idea.
Since the UK is a member of the EU I argue that the UK is not up to this. The UK has not the mentality or the right spirit and the EU would be much better off without this USA lobbyist and spy.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

That can be but his point is that outside the UK-USA nobody would think about their own country as the agressor in a war. It is a laughable idea.
Since the UK is a member of the EU I argue that the UK is not up to this. The UK has not the mentality or the right spirit and the EU would be much better off without this USA lobbyist and spy.

Thing is while the post and the point might make compelling reading to certain types it doesn't hold up completely to reality. In fact it's offensive to all those people in this country that aren't like that at all.

 

[amatis]

I am "certain type" who is Belgian, not English.

 

[London_Calling]

Thing is while the post and the point might make compelling reading to certain types it doesn't hold up completely to reality. In fact it's offensive to all those people in this country that aren't like that at all.

my post speaks of "the majority". Are you taking issue with that, or are you pretty keen to be offended ?


amatis - thang yew. I like Belgian washing machines.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

my post speaks of "the majority". Are you taking issue with that, or are you pretty keen to be offended ?


amatis - thang yew. I like Belgian washing machines.

Majority? Well, in the run up to the Iraq war the 'marjority' were against it. Are you pretty keen to offend with huge generalisations about a whole nation of people?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

paid to kill, paid to die.

Applies to the Iranian soldiers guarding the captives, too.

 

[phildwyer]

Covert violations of another nation's territorial integrity in situations such as this are part and parcel of any modern conflict. During the Falklands war we staged from Chile into Argentina several times on both intel-gathering and sabotage missions. It is plausible even if the naval boats didn't stray into Iranian waters that one of the merchantmen they boarded was being used as a "dead letter drop" for intel purposes. We just don't know.

Tell us a war story grandad!

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Applies to the Iranian soldiers guarding the captives, too.

that is if they are career soldiers. what if they are conscripts?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tell us a war story grandad!

Have you forgotten how to punctuate your sentences properly, phil?

That's terrible, what with you teaching English literature (albeit 17th century).

Don't you feel at all ashamed of yourself?

 

[ViolentPanda]

that is if they are career soldiers. what if they are conscripts?

They probably won't be in this case. The last lot (in 2004) were "minded" by Iranian intellifence.

Plenty of the poor bastards guarding the Iranian air defences etc will be conscripts though (IIRC).

 

[phildwyer]

Have you forgotten how to punctuate your sentences properly, phil?

No seriously, Private, you were in the army right? Surely you must have seen a *little* bit of action? Or were you on spud-peeling duties the whole time? Really, I'm interested to know about your battlefield exploits.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

No seriously, Private, you were in the army right? Surely you must have seen a *little* bit of action? Or were you on spud-peeling duties the whole time? Really, I'm interested to know about your battlefield exploits.

Or alternatively, you could leave this cross-thread bollockry well alone.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

that is if they are career soldiers. what if they are conscripts?

Hard to know which they are, if they're shooting at you.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Hard to know which they are, if they're shooting at you.

Well, career soldiers are likely to be better shots I suppose.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Hard to know which they are, if they're shooting at you.

If Iran train their conscripts to the same standards most other countries that still use the system do, then the conscripts will be the ones who're not firing at you, because they'll still be trying to figure out how to cycle the bolt on their assault rifle, having forgotten how about the same time they pissed themselves.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If Iran train their conscripts to the same standards most other countries that still use the system do, then the conscripts will be the ones who're not firing at you, because they'll still be trying to figure out how to cycle the bolt on their assault rifle, having forgotten how about the same time they pissed themselves.

Seems a shame they might have to go up against a unit like the Special Boat Service.