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The Growth of Supervisory Jobs, and its Affect on Class Struggle

Move past the C19th boys, the world has changed...

I am not sure that the world has changed at all since the 19th Century. It certainly changed from agrarian to industrial during that century but the world of today in the UK is much the same as then. The nineteenth century conditions for workers in the UK have now been spread over the whole world. They call it globalization, but it is not really a change, it is more of the same and it is not good for the worker.
 
indeed, as i just mentioned, mm, somewhere, the most common job in the 19thC was as a servant. So then as now, Britain has mainly been a 'service' economy.
 
OK, well as far as I see it 'Party' hasn't had a stellar track record, be that in Soviet Russia or China, or the infighting of CPs in the West throughout the C20th.
 
The growth of management/supervisory jobs makes class struggle nigh-on impossible in many (maybe most) workplaces. In many areas there are no non-supervisory jobs - with everybody being somembody elses boss. This results in everyone having their tongue up their boss' arse and their boot on the subordinate's head.

Most of the left can't even bring themselves to oppose this obscene growth of the boss class or see it as a particularly "bad thing". After all - most of them hold such supervisory positions themselves.
 
poster340002 would be your man on this, since this is what he's always going on about, how the rise in supervisory positions means establishing class consciousness in any workplace is difficult/impossible.
As, indeed, I came to realise through bitter experience over 20 years.
 
The growth of management/supervisory jobs makes class struggle nigh-on impossible in many (maybe most) workplaces. In many areas there are no non-supervisory jobs - with everybody being somembody elses boss. This results in everyone having their tongue up their boss' arse and their boot on the subordinate's head.

Most of the left can't even bring themselves to oppose this obscene growth of the boss class or see it as a particularly "bad thing". After all - most of them hold such supervisory positions themselves.

top post
 
The change isn't really the growth of actual management or the creation of new posts with significant responsibilities and privileges. It's the creation of large numbers of supervisory or "leader" roles, which generally involve little actual power and even less actual reward.

These jobs tend to go to people who are likely to be sticking around or who show a bit of initiative - people who in earlier years might be the most likely union activists in a workforce, as well as to management lickspittle types. It has a number of benefits for management:

1) it sews division amongst the workforce, and so makes solidarity harder. Management always likes to have groups of workers on different contracts, different pay and different benefits for exactly that reason.

2) It helps give a significant minority of workers the false impression that they are actual managers and thus owe loyalty to the company above and beyond their fellow workers.

3) It gives other rank and file workers the misleading impression that "advancement" and "career paths" are open to anyone who keeps their head down and works hard.

The creation of these roles is most certainly a damaging thing. It does not however mean that someone on a couple of grand extra a year and who has some half assed "leaders" role has ceased to be a worker or any other such gibberish.
 
There is a cable factory up the road from me where they have got a thing called team leaders. The team leaders have no disciplining role. Their function is to just make sure the work runs smoothly without hitches. All this for an extra £5 a week. Hardly advancing the hourly paid into the ranks of the middle class, especially when they are only on eight and a half quid an hour for a 40 hour week.
Strong union organisation in this particular workplace eliminates any of the 'I,m up the bosses arse' nonsense. About 95% of the production line are in the union in a workforce of about 150. There are stewards in every section making sure no back stabbing, arse licking silliness occurs.

So the key to all this 'supervisor' nonsense is good strong union organisation.
 
no one has any hard data on how many (if any) such jobs have come into being in the least twenty odd years then, can i take it?
 
The change isn't really the growth of actual management or the creation of new posts with significant responsibilities and privileges. It's the creation of large numbers of supervisory or "leader" roles, which generally involve little actual power
Apart from the power to get their subordinates dismissed on trumped-up disciplinary/performance charges.

These jobs tend to go to people who are likely to be sticking around or who show a bit of initiative - people who in earlier years might be the most likely union activists in a workforce, as well as to management lickspittle types.
Often one and the same thing.

"..and the workers looked from union activist to management lickspittle, and from management lickspittle to union activist..."

1) it sews division amongst the workforce, and so makes solidarity harder. Management always likes to have groups of workers on different contracts, different pay and different benefits for exactly that reason.

2) It helps give a significant minority of workers the false impression that they are actual managers and thus owe loyalty to the company above and beyond their fellow workers.
Sometimes a clear majority. It's called Corporate Stockhome Syndrome.

3) It gives other rank and file workers the misleading impression that "advancement" and "career paths" are open to anyone who keeps their head down and works hard.

The creation of these roles is most certainly a damaging thing.
Agree.
It does not however mean that someone on a couple of grand extra a year and who has some half assed "leaders" role has ceased to be a worker or any other such gibberish.

They are lost to our class. They behave and think so much like the boss classes that they might as well be them.
 
dear god, what drivel, even by scabapologist342002's already low standards.

A majority of workers. sometimes, think that they are managers? Even you can't actually think that, can you?
 
That's my impression, as I wrote it in t'other thread. But I am unaware of any stats to definitively back it up, does anyone know if such things are available anywhere? And, if my impressions are correct, has it had much impact upon how those workers view themselves, and view their workmates (or not mates), and so upon the state of the class struggle.
Don't know about any hard stats, but I've now worked in three large - largeish office based companies and from my experience what you say certainly seems to be correct.

They are usually called "team leaders" tho where I've worked, tho I assume they're what you mean, and yes, one for about every ten people seems about right.

And yes, it has a VERY large effect on how these team leaders view themselves and their colleagues. There's two types: Those that want to be popular and those that aren't popular. Those that want to be popular are harmless and "one of us". Those that aren't popular are so for one of two reasons - either they're jobsworth little bastards whose only ambition is their next promotion and they really do not care about anyone other than themselves, or, they're scared of the management and pass on their fears to "their staff" (eg if the manager says more work needs doing, team leader will up the team's targets, rather than confront the manager with their unreasonable requests). I would say most team leaders tend to be the latter.

It also gives those at a lower level the idea that there is not only something to aim for in their job, but something that is well within their reach.

Is this a deliberate attempt to divide the working class? I very much doubt it. I think it's more to do with lazy fucking managers passing THEIR work to someone lower down the pecking order. Does it divide the working class? Quite possibly yes, but imo, this is more coincidental than a sinister plot by the "elite"
 
As well as the creation of supervisory posts, there is also the introduction of self-supervisory behaviours; you behave as your own manager. This has the effect of getting you to monitor and discipline your own behaviour, and to think differently about those who mointor and discipline you; they're just doing their job the same as you. This sort of approach is apparent to greater and lesser degrees in all of those work assessment processes that include discussion with your manager, agreeing reports on past work and targets for future activity. We may not all be middle class now, but lots more of us are our own overseers than was previously the case.

Louis Macneice
 
feck me the voice of doom, he's back - I was almost missing you. Four posts of 'its all hopeless', welcome back, a triumphant return

and making comments so bloody daft he immediately has to make things up to justify them, what a sad bastard.
 
funny how the only people who seem to believe in it are right-wing tossers.

Well, not that funny
 
Even 'in workplaces where the bourgeoise is in rampant triumph' is there no such thing as CSS.

CSS is just an excuse by individuals to not do any union work. It is also an excuse to support individualisation against collectivisation.

You are playing the bosses game. You have fallen for their plan hook, line and sinker!!
 
FWIW..

In my office we were recently handed down an edict from a new director, specifically about moving offices to another location which wasn't as good, the integration of two teams that don't need to be integrated and the splitting of two teams that do, especially given a mahoosive project we've got for the next 3 years.

Between us and the other team affected, we wrote 2 letters as teams, the first to our line managers (who broadly supported what we were doing as they're the ones who'd end up with the pain of trying to manage a project on 3 dispersed sites), the second to the director concerned.

The line managers and one of us had a meeting with said director yesterday, with HR present, and he caved on everything and apologised.
 
funny how the only people who seem to believe in it are right-wing tossers.

So now acknowelding the existance of (and opposing) a fucked-up managerial doctrine that turns workplaces into somemthing resembling religious cults is right wing?

Crikey, us "right wingers" will be saying the bosses don't have our best interests at heart next!
 
Even 'in workplaces where the bourgeoise is in rampant triumph' is there no such thing as CSS.
Really? What do you call a scenario where everyone sucks up to the management and applaudes every single management attack on rigths and conditons? And don't say it simply doesn't happen.
CSS is just an excuse by individuals to not do any union work. It is also an excuse to support individualisation against collectivisation.
I've been a union activist in places with CSS - and got nothing for my efforts to "collectivise" the assortment of majority-scabs, corporate-ladderclimbers and the like apart from deafening silence or silly titters.
You are playing the bosses game. You have fallen for their plan hook, line and sinker!!

No, you are playing the bosses game by denying the existance of (and thus have no strategy to oppose) a tactic that the bosses use to maintain control.
 
I've been a union activist in places with CSS - and got nothing for my efforts to "collectivise" the assortment of majority-scabs, corporate-ladderclimbers and the like apart from deafening silence or silly titters.

So you've given up and become a cynic. Hey most on here had already gathered that.

So, now that's been further established, please fuckoff and bore some others rigid - thanks.
 
So you've given up and become a cynic.

No - I just face up to facts. Yuu have to if you still hold out any hope of changing them. "The point is to change it", as Marx once said - rather than "the point is to downplay it and pretend it isn't happenning".

In practise, it's the left that has largely "given up" by leaving regular workplace jobs and taking refuge in 100% facility-time TU roles and weird sects where they only mingle with like-minded people. They give up by hiding in a closed bubble where they only hear one messgae from fellow devotees.
 
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