the green mile

[Barking_Mad]

FFS why do you have such an obsession with trying to find a concealed hint of racism in everything. afro's, playstation ads, films etc

The film was set in the 30's btw so is it really any surprise "IF" some of the attitudes don't 100% meet your ultra P.C. criteria ?

Agreed, what's the point of setting a film in the 50's(?) and NOT attempting to show the 'thinking' of the times? I A great movie about not having the death penalty imo.

 

[Grandma Death]

I've read in several magazine articles and in his collection of essay's Danse Macabre he actually lists the Kubrick film among his favourite horror film, so his feelings about the film appear to be rather ambivalent. It mentions something here, though I didn't know that he's got a gag order on him now:

http://www.salon.com/april97/shining970425.html

It might be a favourite film but its his least favourite adaptation of his works according to this.

 

[Reno]

It might be a favourite film but its his least favourite adaptation of his works according to this.

Yes, thanks for googling that for me, it's very old news indeed.

 

[Reno]

FFS why do you have such an obsession with trying to find a concealed hint of racism in everything. afro's, playstation ads, films etc

The film was set in the 30's btw so is it really any surprise "IF" some of the attitudes don't 100% meet your ultra P.C. criteria ?

Considering that I was the one who first brought it up and that this was a complaint several critics of the film had at the time (Spike Lee among them) it's not just Louloubelle who thinks that the films dated depiction of a black man as a noble savage is problematic. This particular cultural stereotype is known the "magical negro", a plot device rather than a fully formed character, who is mainly there to help out the white folks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtml

 

[RaverDrew]

Considering that I was the one who first brought it up and that this was a complaint several critics of the film had at the time (Spike Lee amongst them) it's not just Louloubelle who thinks that the films dated depiction of a black man as a childlike, noble savage is problematic.

ok you are a P.C. fascist as well

happy now

 

[Grandma Death]

Yes, thanks for googling that for me, it's very old news indeed.

Indeed. Being a huge King fan I read his views on the film way back in the 80s but googled to find a link to the interview I read but couldnt find that-sorry its not quite up to your standard

 

[RaverDrew]

so what

gandalf, merlin and jesus christ are magical chalkies

its usually those that are so obsessed with seeing racism in everything, that are those with the real racial hang ups imo

 

[Grandma Death]

Considering that I was the one who first brought it up and that this was a complaint several critics of the film had at the time (Spike Lee among them)

I wouldnt take the self important 'spokesperson' for a black generation as the end word on depiction of black people in movies.

Spike Lee slammed quentin tarantino for using the word nigger in his films, lee has at the best of time got his head up his own arse-something Samuel Jackson also agrees with. IIRC his words were 'Who appointed him the spokesperson for a black generation?'.

Can I ask what aspects of the character you found problematic?

 

[Louloubelle]

Considering that I was the one who first brought it up and that this was a complaint several critics of the film had at the time (Spike Lee among them) it's not just Louloubelle who thinks that the films dated depiction of a black man as a noble savage is problematic. This particular cultural stereotype is known the "magical negro", a plot device rather than a fully formed character, who is mainly there to help out the white folks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_negro

http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20041025/kinga.shtml

I hadn't heard of that stereotype, but it makes a lot of sense, thank for that

 

[Louloubelle]

Actually Germaine Greer thought that depiction the magic African guy was infantalising and racist too, as did Tom Paulin and someone else although I can't remember who on the Late Review.

I've talked to friends about this part of the film and some loved the character but a lot of the more thought it was very 'noble savage' like, patronising and ultimately racist.

 

[ruffneck23]

well anything Germain Greer has to say must be true

the only thing i got out of the film is how people can get things totally wrong through stereotyping

 

[Neva]

I'm with RaverDrew on this one.

Louloubelle, your criteria for juding racism seems to be one of the most bizzare I've ever heard of.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=168822

 

[golightly]

gandalf, merlin and jesus christ are magical chalkies

Only if you believe the Western propoganda that Jesus was white.

FWIW, the characterisation of John Coffey was racist. The film was set in the 1930's and the characters would have had 1930's sensibilities, however this film was made in 1999, and it was the film which depicted John Coffey as a simpleton. Having said that I wouldn't get too stressed about it. Just point out the observation, learn from it, and move on.

 

[ruffneck23]

it was the book that depicted John Coffey as a simpleton , but the whole point seems to be that if you are big and black in 30's america means you are guilty , i think the simpleton aspect was more to do with the fact that you can be a good wonderful person without being clever

 

[Louloubelle]

I'm with RaverDrew on this one.

Louloubelle, your criteria for juding racism seems to be one of the most bizzare I've ever heard of.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=168822

*ironic / sarcastic mode*

Yes because of course the Sony advert isn't racist because the people who work at advertising companies are so stupid that they lack the intelligence and sophistication to appreciate that using a poster depicting an African women being humiliated by a European woman will be seen as being at worst racist and at best a serious error of judgement.

The fact that Sony withdrew the ad in Holland and made a public statment saying that they would not be using the ad anywhere else was entirely down to my thread on urban.

*end ironic mode*

What I found especailly interesting was that the responses to the thread were on the whole sneery superior posturing designed to avoid thinking about the issue.

The only interesting responses were from people who work in advertising, who will at least realise that the Sony claim that the race of the models was relevant only to the products being sold is complete rubbish.

I'd be interested to here your opinion on what exactly you think the images were meant to represent and why Sony chose these images for its ad campaign?

 

[Neva]

I'd be interested to here your opinion on what exactly you think the images were meant to represent and why Sony chose these images for its ad campaign?

Well call me crazy but I thought the ad camping featuring a black and a white person fighting was supposed to represent a white and a black product fighting for market dominance.

For the record the responses in that thread were generally negative to your view point because most people didn't think it was racist. Just as most people in this thread don't think The Green Mile character is racist, outside of the context of the film as it were. It's got nothing to do with posters being sneering snobs and everything to do with your own personal PC agenda.

 

[Louloubelle]

actually, having just read Reno's 2nd link about the 'magical negro' it seems as though this character is a kind of trickster figure, closely related to the talking animal aspect of the trickster archetype, who so often crops up to help the hero on his quest and who is very often sacrificed at some point in the story.

I'm also reminded of the myth of Enkidu to some extent

that link was really food for thought

Thanks Reno, much appreciated

 

[golightly]

it was the book that depicted John Coffey as a simpleton , but the whole point seems to be that if you are big and black in 30's america means you are guilty , i think the simpleton aspect was more to do with the fact that you can be a good wonderful person without being clever

Absolutely in 1930's America John Coffey would have been seen as guilty no questions. With regard to him being a simpleton the issue was about him being a stereotype or a cypher. He wasn't a character in his own right but rather a means for the Tom Hanks character to achieve self-awareness. It's not obvious racism because John Coffey wan't depicted as a bad person rather his role was to serve someone else so he was a non-person. Actually I liked the film, but I'm a sucker for schmaltz. I can see the racism in the John Coffey character, but I wouldn't get worked up about it. Films are full of stereotypes and cyphers and this is nothing different.

 

[Louloubelle]

Well call me crazy but I thought the ad camping featuring a black and a white person fighting was supposed to represent a white and a black product fighting for market dominance.

If you really believe that advertising creatives are that lacking in sophistiation then you are crazy.

 

[Neva]

If you really believe that advertising creatives are that lacking in sophistiation then you are crazy.

Have you never seen an advert before? The vast, vast majority are exceptionally uncreative, unsophisticated and simplistic.

 

[Louloubelle]

Have you never seen an advert before? The vast, vast majority are exceptionally uncreative, unsophisticated and simplistic.

I couldn't disagree more

Granted there are some rubbish adverts, but the general level of sophistication and understanding of how to manipulate people's unconscious desires is incredible.

Creatives use conscious and unconscious symbolism to manipulate us to buy things we don't need and on the whole the creatives who conceptualise and create advertisments are very clever people with an in depth understanding of symbolism and how to use it.

Also some advertisments are IMO wonderfully creative and are art in their own right.

I have a very ambivalent attitude towards advertisments and advertising because of this.

 

[Neva]

Well your entitled to your opinion and either way it's a digression of the thread but I think in my whole life I've seen maybe 20 adverts that I would call sophisticated and several thousand that I wouldn't. Also advertising isn't filled with clever people at all. It's like what you do when your dreams of writing a novel fail.

If you really want to continue this then go and bump that old thread of yours and start telling everyone why they were wrong and you are right. Go on I dare you

 

[Louloubelle]

Well your entitled to your opinion and either way it's a digression of the thread but I think in my whole life I've seen maybe 20 adverts that I would call sophisticated and several thousand that I wouldn't. Also advertising isn't filled with clever people at all. It's like what you do when your dreams of writing a novel fail.

We'll have to disagree on that then, because my expereince is completely different

If you really want to continue this then go and bump that old thread of yours and start telling everyone why they were wrong and you are right. Go on I dare you

You're the one who mentioned the other thread, you're the one who 'digressed' if you want to bump the other thread then bump it.

 

[Neva]

You're the one who mentioned the other thread, you're the one who 'digressed' if you want to bump the other thread then bump it.

If I bump it you won't reply though. That's what happened last time wasn't it? You made a stupid OP, got called on it and then left without ever coming back to defend your ridiculous statements

 

[maya]

I have yet to see a good film of a Stephen King book

i've yet to see a good Stephen King book...

although i should stop sneering at "entertainment for the masses"

 

[Louloubelle]

If I bump it you won't reply though. That's what happened last time wasn't it? You made a stupid OP, got called on it and then left without ever coming back to defend your ridiculous statements

Ah, so you've swapped your favourite for a

LOL

What should you care whether I reply when you're so confident of the superiority of your opinion?

Why should I bother defending my position when the majority of posters didn't even engage with what I was saying?

I made an OP asking whether Sony's advertising people were crazy and giving a link the the campaign and quoted their response to accusations of racism.

In response to that a whole load of people, including you and raver drew, got into daily mail mode and started to rant about political correctness gone mad.

I found it fascinating just how angry and worked up people got, and how attacking people got, just over me asking if Sony's advertising team were crazy.

I read the replies with interest, mostly because I never said that the ad itself was racist, but the replies were so defensive and so attacking that it was as if people had thought that I had said I thought that they were racist.

You have to wonder what that is really all about.

My actual thoughts on the issue, which I didn't see the point of posting there given the hysteria generated by my OP, was that the advertising company had acted in a racist way by knowingly using a contraversial image that would inevitably cause hurt and offence, especialy to African people, and yet they used it anyway.

They knew that there would be an outcry and for this reason they chose Holland for the campaign, making clear statements that the campaign would not be used in the US or the UK.

If you think for one moment that the creatives at the team who hold the account genuinely had no idea that the image could be construed as racist then you are incredibly naive.

If I had more time and patience I might bother to post on the thread but I've got better things to do. If you have more to say then YOU post on the thread.

Hey, you could also link to this thread if you like, as you like linking to other threads so much

 

[Neva]

Well I think if you go back and read your thread you’ll find I only made two posts in it. One was actually commending the majority of the posters for not becoming hysterical and the other, my first post, was the following:

Insane? This is phenomenal advertising. It's been all over the net for the last week and discussed on national TV in America.

For the record I don't think it's racist except in the way that you could say that ANY image displaying a white person in a position of authority over a black person is racist and if the PC lobby have made us go far then I officially give up on the world.

I don’t really see how I wasn’t engaging with the topic as it’s only a two line post discussing my thoughts on the advert and whether or not I thought it was racist. That was the topic right?

I’m also a little curious now about how you think that qualifies as "hysteria" or how that’s me getting "into Daily Mail mode and starting to rant". If you could explain how and why you think that it would be cool. Imo your OP with it’s “OMG - Sony's advertising team are insane” heading and how you find it so “unbelievable” and all would be more likely classed under that kind of adjective but whatever.

Anyway regarding The Green Mile I liked it. It definitely went on to long but I find most films do that nowadays and at least in doing so it was staying true to the book which I find is always a plus in adaptations.

Heh because I was reading that other thead with a bunch of windows open I did just end up accidentally bumping it when I tried to post this reply I'm too tired for the internet I'm off to bed.

 

[ruffneck23]

i've yet to see a good Stephen King book...

LOL . , very true , but somehow the film didnt ' feel ' like a steven king adaptation

 

[Grandma Death]

LOL . , very true , but somehow the film didnt ' feel ' like a steven king adaptation

And whats a stephen king adaptation supposed to feel like then?

 

[Grandma Death]

i've yet to see a good Stephen King book...

You've yet to 'read' a good stephen king book.

although i should stop sneering at "entertainment for the masses"

Entertainment for the masses-is that your criteria for sneering then?