The great Chumbawamba appreciation thread

[Ground Elder]

But can you sing in tune?

 

[poet]

If I remember correctly, which I probably don't, the money for the Fiat car advert went straight to striking Fiat workers.

Seems my memory is fucked http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2002/02/520.shtml

Writing on Chumbawamba's website, www.chumb.co.uk guitarist Boff made it clear that the reason for donating the cash was not altogether altruistic. "What we get out of it is exposure; people might hear the song and go out and buy an album. An album that came out ages ago, which isn't readily available, and which contains a totally different version of the song. That's the knock-on effect for us."

http://www.nme.com/news/100573.htm

 

[DaveCinzano]

When we signed to EMI they didn’t have an armourments division; they’d parted company with Thorn (who produced arms) six years previously. If EMI had still been connected with Thorn we wouldn’t have worked with the label. As far as we were concerned we were signing with out-and-out capitalists who were no better and no worse than Sony, Universal and all the other big labels. The debate that was to be had was whether openly working with a multinational would stop us from producing radical art. It didn’t but the multinational refused to sell it. WYSIWYG was an album which dealt with globalisation, dumbing down and the way absolute poverty is hidden under a shiny GAP label. This is the age of manufactured bands, we don’t fit into the shut-up and sing ethos epitomised by Hearsay.

Recuperation is always a problem. We weren’t concerned with staying pure but we were concerned with staying relevant and not becoming complacent. We still feel we’re part of a movement and when we sold records the movement received a cash injection, that was something useful we could do. So we don’t feel any remorse towards Conflict or anybody else, signing to EMI didn’t detach us from the real world or turn us into grinning fools, which is probably why our relationship with EMI was so fraught in the UK.

from the faq's on the chumba website (http://chumba.com/_faquestions2.htm)

 

[cyberfairy]

Yes, actually. Crass were the most important and influential band in the history of anarchopunk precisely because they were morally unimpeachable. If you can't practice what you preach then keep your gob shut - you merely serve to undermine the principles you espouse. I expect everyone publicly forwarding radical political views to be doing their utmost to live those beliefs in practice and to demonstrate both with words and actions their dedication to their cause. If everyone with a circled-a on their hoodie lived like Crass anarchism wouldn't be the joke of a political belief that it's become, whether it'd be a serious threat to our society or not it'd be a million times more credible than it is now.

We need to attack sell-outs and part-timers because they undermine the work of the dedicated. I've got into stand-up fights with a number of high-profile environmentalists because they drive cars - who the fuck is going to listen to someone preaching environmental views if they don't care enough to ditch their fucking car? It undermines the way I live and the words I speak. When I talk to 'ordinary' people about environmentalism their first response is that of cynicism. They try and figure out my little flaws like they'd try and work out how a conjourer does tricks. The implicit assumption is that living a properly green life is impossible because so many high-profile environmentalists fail to do it right. People refuse to believe that I really am carbon-neutral, that my solar array really does pump out enough power for me and several others, that my EV isn't charged by a coal-firing power plant. It's because of all the half-arsed hypocrites who say one thing and do another that credibility as a radical is impossible.

If caring about the environment means you have to live in a cave then it's a lot easier to not care about the environment. You have to start somewhere but to be so puranical and holier than thou will just serve to put a lot of people off even initially making a first step towards a more substainable equal future. Just reading your post makes me want a big mac-and i'm a strict vegetarian! It's nigh on impossible in this day and age to live without harming something or someone so although you're admirable, don't critisise people who fail to live up to your ever so slightly exacting standards.

 

[poet]

It doesn't mean living in a cave. It means making some sacrifices and using your head but there's very little it stops you from doing.

Not so long ago vegetarians were a bunch of weirdos, most people didn't understand entirely what vegetarianism was or why they'd choose it. Years of campaigning and people actually sticking to their principles has resulted in 99.9% of restaurants offering vegetarian options, the army providing veggie rations and so on. That wouldn't have happened if there weren't a hardcore of veggies who did 'difficult' things to make that happen. Twenty years from now veganism may well be just as ordinary a thing, but it takes a determined core of people to do the hard work in a very public manner. There were only 70-odd people on the first Gay Pride march and all of them risked life and limb to do it, most of them paying serious prices. Now millions of people all across europe take part in pride marches without any of those fears.

I am absolutely not saying that everyone has to start living puritanically right now. What I am saying is that a few people have to do the hard work so that others can walk the easy path and that if people are publicly preaching something they fucking well should be doing it, otherwise they lose all credibility.

 

[cyberfairy]

It doesn't mean living in a cave. It means making some sacrifices and using your head but there's very little it stops you from doing.

Not so long ago vegetarians were a bunch of weirdos, most people didn't understand entirely what vegetarianism was or why they'd choose it. Years of campaigning and people actually sticking to their principles has resulted in 99.9% of restaurants offering vegetarian options, the army providing veggie rations and so on. That wouldn't have happened if there weren't a hardcore of veggies who did 'difficult' things to make that happen. Twenty years from now veganism may well be just as ordinary a thing, but it takes a determined core of people to do the hard work in a very public manner. There were only 70-odd people on the first Gay Pride march and all of them risked life and limb to do it, most of them paying serious prices. Now millions of people all across europe take part in pride marches without any of those fears.

I am absolutely not saying that everyone has to start living puritanically right now. What I am saying is that a few people have to do the hard work so that others can walk the easy path and that if people are publicly preaching something they fucking well should be doing it, otherwise they lose all credibility.

But if i took your hardline ethic, then i should really be vegan as eating eggs etc is admittedly hypocritical of me. If every person who wanted to be veggie was pressured into veganism then a lot of people would fail and resort back into eating meat so there wouldn't be as many veggies and thus not as many veggie options available. Pubs etc have realised the profit margin of selling a bit of pasta instead of a steak, not militant veggie campaigners rioting in the streeets. Even the gay marches have just been expanded by and watered down by capitalism, more of a excuse to be seen, consume and be marketed to than having any political agenda left. Theres just as many straights there as gays and no soapboxing, just soapstars with microphones. Anyway, i think people should practice what they preach to a certain extent but I still think signing to EMI and putting out an album with radical lyrics for general public consumption is far more anarchic and liable to alter peoples preconceptions than preaching to the converted, i.e putting out a seven inch about the badness of multinationals on a tiny label to a select fanbase of about 2000 people who already hate multinationals.

 

[rocketman]

Ah well,
While I'm passing I thought this may be of interest:
And I've never been as puritanical as poet, after all, at time of decision or crisis, the mettle of a man or a woman is in their actions. The band had a lot of good actions.

Here's how Black Flag got through the early days
Black Flag the early years

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Actually...

Given the role of Alice Nutter of Chumbawumba in supporting the now-discredited assets in Leeds AFA who covered up for self-incriminated SB informant & fascist Tony White's theft of the Northern Star address book in 1993, that later appeared in C18 magazines 1 & 2, suiting MI5/SB agenda down to the ground, I beg to pass on this thread, unless it be a sick-bag.

The contradiction between the supposed political progressives Chumba having as their major hit one of the most macho drinking songs ever has presumably already been commented on, hasn't it???

And I surmise that Nutter maybe took the false name she sports to hide an upper class background?? (Only asking).

Tamla Motown anyday...

 

[cyberfairy]

Ah well,
While I'm passing I thought this may be of interest:
And I've never been as puritanical as poet, after all, at time of decision or crisis, the mettle of a man or a woman is in their actions. The band had a lot of good actions.

Here's how Black Flag got through the early days
Black Flag the early years

so he got sick from being a veggie and 'just eating potatoes' so had to start eating meat again? Hmm, and involved in small businesses I do like their song on that Ipod advert though

 

[rocketman]

So all she did was support Leeds AFA in good faith?
What's wrong with that.
How it was abused isn't her problem, all she did was try to offer support to anti facist action, which is commendable. Certainly the corruption came from elsewhere.

 

[rocketman]

Heh

 

[cyberfairy]

Given the role of Alice Nutter of Chumbawumba in supporting the now-discredited assets in Leeds AFA who covered up for self-incriminated SB informant & fascist Tony White's theft of the Northern Star address book in 1993, that later appeared in C18 magazines 1 & 2, suiting MI5/SB agenda down to the ground, I beg to pass on this thread, unless it be a sick-bag.

The contradiction between the supposed political progressives Chumba having as their major hit one of the most macho drinking songs ever has presumably already been commented on, hasn't it???

And I surmise that Nutter maybe took the false name she sports to hide an upper class background?? (Only asking).

Tamla Motown anyday...

doesn't matter what class you happened to have bbeen born into-you can't help it but you can help atone for your ilks sins...it was an ironic song and you can't help it if you support a cause that seems worth while but has hidden undercurrents...here, have a paper bag there's a hole in it mind...

 

[editor]

I'm not a big fan of what I've heard of their music but I respect them as peeps and know that several urban peeps like the band - so I've invited them to play Offline!

If I get an answer, I'll post it up here (but I won't be holding my breath seeing as I imagine my "come to Brixton for two pints of beer" request is unlikely to set their world on fire!)

 

[Pickman's model]

several urban peeps like the band

i'd have thought that more than a few people liked the chumbas - but given the issues larry raises above, i expect that many seasoned chumba watchers have reservations about the band.

 

[cyberfairy]

I'm not a big fan of what I've heard of their music but I respect them as peeps and know that several urban peeps like the band - so I've invited them to play Offline!

If I get an answer, I'll post it up here (but I won't be holding my breath seeing as I imagine my "come to Brixton for two pints of beer" request is unlikely to set their world on fire!)

oh I'm sure they will just to hopefully prove how incredibly right i am about them not being sell-outs! C'mon Alice, don't let me down or your mummy can't hunt on my mummy's estate anymore

 

[Larry O'Hara]

So all she did was support Leeds AFA in good faith?
What's wrong with that.
How it was abused isn't her problem, all she did was try to offer support to anti facist action, which is commendable. Certainly the corruption came from elsewhere.

I too support Anti-Fascist Action, but what went on in Leeds hardly fitted that description--and having been on the receiving end of a baying mob at the Anarchist BookFair for daring to raise serious questions at the time, in which Nutter was present & actively supporting those in the wrong, I don't take such a charitable view.

 

[editor]

i'd have thought that more than a few people liked the chumbas - but given the issues larry raises above, i expect that many seasoned chumba watchers have reservations about the band.

Larry seems to have problems with every act I book these days, but seeing as:

(a) I imagine 99.999999% of the Offline couldn't care less either way and
(b) Larry never comes to Offline

I'm not that bothered to be honest.

If I booked a bunch of choirboys no doubt Larry would dig up some decades-old, obscure political claim to slag them off with.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Larry seems to have problems with every act I book these days, but seeing as:

(a) I imagine 99.999999% of the Offline couldn't care less either way and
(b) Larry never comes to Offline

I'm not that bothered to be honest.

If I booked a bunch of choirboys no doubt Larry would dig up some decades-old, obscure political claim to slag them off with.

Good to see your standard of debate isn't slipping...

 

[editor]

Good to see your standard of debate isn't slipping...

You must be a barrel of laughs at a gig.

"Are you enjoying the great band, Larry?"

"Well, I was until I noticed that the bass player once said something I disagreed with in 1986"

 

[cyberfairy]

Larry seems to have problems with every act I book these days, but seeing as:

(a) I imagine 99.999999% of the Offline couldn't care less either way and
(b) Larry never comes to Offline

I'm not that bothered to be honest.

If I booked a bunch of choirboys no doubt Larry would dig up some decades-old, obscure political claim to slag them off with.

sod it, just book screwdriver and be done with it

 

[DaveCinzano]

"Well, I was until I noticed that the bass player once said something I disagreed with in 1986"

tbf, bassists are always in the wrong... and let's not go there with the whole drummer thing

 

[Pickman's model]

sod it, just book screwdriver and be done with it

i'd go to that if they bring along ian stuart donaldson's corpse.

 

[DaveCinzano]

sod it, just book screwdriver and be done with it

alas, they are no longer available

 

[Larry O'Hara]

You must be a barrel of laughs at a gig.

"Are you enjoying the great band, Larry?"

"Well, I was until I noticed that the bass player once said something I disagreed with in 1986"

Do you mean Tony Wakeford??

 

[cyberfairy]

alas, they are no longer available

Prussian Blue it is then! have you heard of this band? two sweet little girls who sing about the holocaust never having happened and the tragic ending of the ayran race

 

[Larry O'Hara]

the tragic ending of the ayran race

do you mean the rayban race??

 

[cyberfairy]

do you mean the rayban race??

Er no. Is there a rayban race? Sounds a bit commercial and sell out for my liking!

 

[DaveCinzano]

do you mean the rayban race??

no, ayranians - you know, from persia

 

[N2Oboy]

I really like Chumbawamba. Especially 'Readymades' which, I reckon, does some ace things with English folk music.

A mate of mine shared a folk club gig with them a few years ago (they were doing a capella stuff). He was quite scathing about their collective vocal ability, but he is a fairly hardcore finger-in-the-ear type singer so perhaps that coloured his opinion.

 

[editor]

Do you mean Tony Wakeford??

Who he?