Right so that's where you are coming from. Another American right wing religious nutter.
The Gnostic Gospels and Gibbon
- Thread starter DotCommunist
- Start date
Right so that's where you are coming from. Another American right wing religious nutter.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
sure fella, you go first with getting rid of the old. I'll wait right behind you with a kalashnikov
Dillinger4
Es gibt Zeit
*sigh*
You had potential.
You had potential.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
this thread has died and peakman is dancing on it's grave
It was possibly a tomato tree, though, not apple...
In many countries I know of: tomato = paradajz...
An interesting observation about "Apples" The Thorn Apple bush, which originates in the middle east, is also known as "The bush that burns". This because it's fruit when eaten brings on a burning sensation. An hallucinatory fruit it can prove fatal if eaten to excesses and was used by priests to induce visions. Therefore was Abraham under the influence of what today would probably be an illegal substance, when he had the bright idea to sacrifice his son and was his son lucky in that the effects began to wear off before it was too late. And did Eve....well the rest may be history.
So please continue with the thread DotCom...
Gnostics, trouble makers, always were. Where would we be today be without them? Still in the dark ages maybe. When the Vatican asked Nasal to place a message on board Pioneer, the space probe of some thirty years ago, they were told that before this request would be granted, they must first apologise for their treatment of amongst others, Galileo. The Vatican submitted this apology in writing.
In my search for the roots of Christianity I passed through Gnosticism, I say "passed through" only because Gnosticism is not the root of Christianity, which was what I was searching for, but I can say to all those now "into" the Gnostics, "Keep going".
In an earlier post I possibly upset a few people by my suggesting that what they may be seeking, is to be found within their selves, in other words, to know God is to, "Know your self". Blasphemy? Well is this not what we are told at Matthew 25:35 to 45? And again are we not told in these same Gospels that all we need to do, if we wish to serve God, or "The Father" (which is my preferred term) is to serve one another. Therefore Christianity is an ancient and universal truth, one that transcends religion.
In my search for the roots of Christianity I passed through Gnosticism, I say "passed through" only because Gnosticism is not the root of Christianity, which was what I was searching for, but I can say to all those now "into" the Gnostics, "Keep going".
In an earlier post I possibly upset a few people by my suggesting that what they may be seeking, is to be found within their selves, in other words, to know God is to, "Know your self". Blasphemy? Well is this not what we are told at Matthew 25:35 to 45? And again are we not told in these same Gospels that all we need to do, if we wish to serve God, or "The Father" (which is my preferred term) is to serve one another. Therefore Christianity is an ancient and universal truth, one that transcends religion.
gorski
customised free radical
Bruno, much more like...
Consider this and tell, please...:
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, Monospace]http://eserver.org/philosophy/kant/what-is-enlightenment.txt[/FONT]
Consider this and tell, please...:
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, Monospace]http://eserver.org/philosophy/kant/what-is-enlightenment.txt[/FONT]
Bruno, certainly, there have been so many. Who am I to argue with Kant? Except that I don't have any argument with what he has said. A study of the Essenes, revealed that whenever they, as a community had a decision to make, a majority was deemed to be "The Will of God". Reflecting possibly in the words attributed to Jesus, that where ever three or more are gathered together, I am in the midst thereof. Following this lead, it is my conclusion that the "Will of God" is what all tyrants, dictators, Kings and yes even present day politicians fear, this "Will of God" is manifest in "democracy", that under which the whole world will one day come to accept as the only form of government acceptable to a civilised society.
gorski
customised free radical
Ahem, so what about the forms of democracy, then: the little, niggling either formal or content-based "democratic shortcomings" - and there are many in all of those representative democracies in particular [see the US and the UK as paradigmatic in this respect] or of the content type [see democracies based on slavery or Nazism etc.] etc. etc.
What if the will of the majority likes to persecute Jews or, say, non-Serbs in Serbia, non-Albanians in Kosovo or non-Croats in Croatia? Would you really leave it all to the will of the people?
Or: should the masses get properly educated for [serious, in-depth, demandin] democracy - given the best possible start in life, equal, God forbid, propped up by the best values that Humanity has come up with, say of non-exploitative, non-domineering kind, largely co-operative in nature etc.?
Wouldn't that demand a considerably shorter working week, so one can take up serious societal and political duties? Wouldn't that demand a wholesale change of both our attitudes to society and politics, as well as the mode of production? Wouldn't that bring us closer to participatory, direct type of democracy, as opposed to representative models we now have? Shouldn't technology advance seriously in that regard and give us the tools to......??????????
It's a little bit too shorthand for me, what you are saying... We are only potentially somewhat "godly"... But that [qualified] statement [unlike yours, completely unqualified] has consequences...
What if the will of the majority likes to persecute Jews or, say, non-Serbs in Serbia, non-Albanians in Kosovo or non-Croats in Croatia? Would you really leave it all to the will of the people?
Or: should the masses get properly educated for [serious, in-depth, demandin] democracy - given the best possible start in life, equal, God forbid, propped up by the best values that Humanity has come up with, say of non-exploitative, non-domineering kind, largely co-operative in nature etc.?
Wouldn't that demand a considerably shorter working week, so one can take up serious societal and political duties? Wouldn't that demand a wholesale change of both our attitudes to society and politics, as well as the mode of production? Wouldn't that bring us closer to participatory, direct type
It's a little bit too shorthand for me, what you are saying... We are only potentially somewhat "godly"... But that [qualified] statement [unlike yours, completely unqualified] has consequences...
gorski
customised free radical
Btw, Bruno and alike [see Rousseau] brings up a point: should there be a space/principle built-in, as it were, the very core, the very foundations of all future societies, including the carefully built attitudes of its members, from cradle to grave, whereby an individual not only can but has a guaranteed right to stand up and tell everyone that they are wrong, even dead wrong, argue the toss and not be discriminated or shunned or burnt on the stake or whatever... Shouldn't this also be sacrosanct?!?
gorski Hi
Good to see an educated response. Please bear with me for I am not myself an "educated" person. Having been born and bred in Ignorance, an industrial town in the north of England, from which I escaped age 18 and at which time my real education began, life, travel, mistakes etc. However I digress, back to the subject.
Democracy, ah! the ideal of Aristotle, put down by Rome and not to be seen again until we English re-planted the seed at Runnymede by forcing King John to sign the Magna Carta. The Magna Cartar, which the Pilgrim Fathers took a copy of to the New World and upon which the Foundling Fathers built a constitution. Democracy, the concept of which, it has been said, as always been in the mind of mankind, smaller than a mustard seed, this seed always has been destined to produce that which the whole of mankind will, as the man said, "One day live in the shade of".
Has that day arrived? Are we talking about what passes for democracy in our own United Kingdom? Perhaps not. The E.U.? A bureaucracy certainly. A democracy? I don't think so. Zimbabwe? and so on.
Have you ever red Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America"? Required reading I should think for anyone studying politics. In his book Tocqueville reveals the idealism of the American constitution as constructed by those early Foundling Father's. He also identified the two dangers not addressed in the original document. the rise of dynasty's and the power of big business but these were problems yet to arrive at some time in the future. Conclusion. The democratic ideal is still just that, an ideal but an ideal which is still being strived for in many places. (In others, under threat from being taken for granted)
Will the day ever come when this ideal will rule the world? As you see, I believe it will and sooner than people think. Let's take the "Parable of the weeds" as an analogy, here we have a man who sowed his field with good seed but as the crop grew so did weeds, weeds that seemed as if they would choke the sown crop. The sower of the seeds is asked why he does not go in and remove the weeds. To which he replies, "Don't bother yourself about that, let them both grow alongside each other, for if I were to go in now the good seed will be damaged, they will be separated at the "Close of the age". (Harvest time)
Good to see an educated response. Please bear with me for I am not myself an "educated" person. Having been born and bred in Ignorance, an industrial town in the north of England, from which I escaped age 18 and at which time my real education began, life, travel, mistakes etc. However I digress, back to the subject.
Democracy, ah! the ideal of Aristotle, put down by Rome and not to be seen again until we English re-planted the seed at Runnymede by forcing King John to sign the Magna Carta. The Magna Cartar, which the Pilgrim Fathers took a copy of to the New World and upon which the Foundling Fathers built a constitution. Democracy, the concept of which, it has been said, as always been in the mind of mankind, smaller than a mustard seed, this seed always has been destined to produce that which the whole of mankind will, as the man said, "One day live in the shade of".
Has that day arrived? Are we talking about what passes for democracy in our own United Kingdom? Perhaps not. The E.U.? A bureaucracy certainly. A democracy? I don't think so. Zimbabwe? and so on.
Have you ever red Alexis de Tocqueville's "Democracy in America"? Required reading I should think for anyone studying politics. In his book Tocqueville reveals the idealism of the American constitution as constructed by those early Foundling Father's. He also identified the two dangers not addressed in the original document. the rise of dynasty's and the power of big business but these were problems yet to arrive at some time in the future. Conclusion. The democratic ideal is still just that, an ideal but an ideal which is still being strived for in many places. (In others, under threat from being taken for granted)
Will the day ever come when this ideal will rule the world? As you see, I believe it will and sooner than people think. Let's take the "Parable of the weeds" as an analogy, here we have a man who sowed his field with good seed but as the crop grew so did weeds, weeds that seemed as if they would choke the sown crop. The sower of the seeds is asked why he does not go in and remove the weeds. To which he replies, "Don't bother yourself about that, let them both grow alongside each other, for if I were to go in now the good seed will be damaged, they will be separated at the "Close of the age". (Harvest time)
gorski
customised free radical
These days we have the green fertiliser, mucuna bean, which also kills the weeds, takes good care of the polinators and life is much better, with more than one crop growing there, mucuna beans beeing the cattle fodder, too.... See, we are growing cleverer...
And I'm not kidding: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mu...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Now, by my reckoning, long-term, temporal intelligence deployed, strategically speaking: education, IT technology, free time and civic values, coupled up with robotisation and the change of values of the whole society, away from short-termism and profit making "business" schemes, meaning communal ownership and hands-on management/care etc. etc. could be the mucuna bean of democracy... but it would take all of our efforts over a long period of time... and no violence and no prophets, pretty please...
And I'm not kidding: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mu...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Now, by my reckoning, long-term, temporal intelligence deployed, strategically speaking: education, IT technology, free time and civic values, coupled up with robotisation and the change of values of the whole society, away from short-termism and profit making "business" schemes, meaning communal ownership and hands-on management/care etc. etc. could be the mucuna bean of democracy... but it would take all of our efforts over a long period of time... and no violence and no prophets, pretty please...
I reckon about a month from now, although I think it will be more along the lines of God unleashing wrathful chastisement and vengeance.
We shall see.
Repent heathens before its too late!
These days we have the green fertiliser, mucuna bean, which also kills the weeds, takes good care of the polinators and life is much better, with more than one crop growing there, mucuna beans beeing the cattle fodder, too.... See, we are growing cleverer...
And I'm not kidding: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mu...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Now, by my reckoning, long-term, temporal intelligence deployed, strategically speaking: education, IT technology, free time and civic values, coupled up with robotisation and the change of values of the whole society, away from short-termism and profit making "business" schemes, meaning communal ownership and hands-on management/care etc. etc. could be the mucuna bean of democracy... but it would take all of our efforts over a long period of time... and no violence and no prophets, pretty please...
You forgot "consumerism" that which the western world is desperate to "kick start" back to life. "Consumerism" always did seem to me to have it's own built in "self destruct" anyway. However what I am talking about will not, in my opinion come about without,..yes the collapse of the old order (as prophesied)
but also some kind of "X factor". (yet to appear) Whatever this "X factor" maybe it has to change that which is the current prime motivation of mankind in general. I think in the times ahead, we shall see this taking place.That's almost "wooden steel" type of notion...
Seriously, though: no more prophets, please...
And forget about violence in the West...
no more prophets, please...Why? I find them to be an enigma. Just who were these guys? Elijah for example?
I'd rather discover things for myself [much more fun] and leave these old "prophet" guys be, really... Mysticism is really not for me, ta...
rather discover things for myself..quote. Quite so, all my stuff is original, otherwise why bother with discussion groups? As for "Mysticism" it is not for everyone, only for "Mystics" or pssiblty "nutters"
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
religious loon.Hmmm... some flawed elementary logics there but... never mind...
Just browsing back along this thread, may I just possibly make a correction to the above, "what you are saying...We are only potentially somewhat "godly"...comment. No "potentially" about it, we "are godly" except that it would be much better if we left "God" out of it, for there is no "God". "God" and gods have only ever been mankind's way of explaining that which was and still is, beyond his or her comprehension. We are what we are, no "God" involved, the problem is we are as yet unaware of just who and what we are. However, what I am saying is that what is prophesied to in the final chapter of The Book of Daniel, about a general "awakening" is about to be fulfilled. And, belief it or not, this is not about religion. It just happens that the Bible is a great source of information, if you are not religious.
gorski
customised free radical
There's a qualification in my post, if you care to note...
and it doesn't go against what you are saying...
I thought I saw that possibility in your posts, which is why I didn't jump to conclusions, unlike some...
Sure, agreed, broadly speaking! But that awakening will be slower and harder, I bet!
Sadly...
I see no such possibility, for a sudden "enlightenment" of the populace, non... Sorry but!
and it doesn't go against what you are saying...I thought I saw that possibility in your posts, which is why I didn't jump to conclusions, unlike some...
Sure, agreed, broadly speaking! But that awakening will be slower and harder, I bet!
Sadly...I see no such possibility, for a sudden "enlightenment" of the populace, non... Sorry but!
There's a qualification in my post, if you care to note...
I thought I saw that possibility in your posts, which is why I didn't jump to conclusions, unlike some...
Sure, agreed, broadly speaking! But that awakening will be slower and harder, I bet!
I see no such possibility, for a sudden "enlightenment" of the populace, non... Sorry but!
Okay, thanks for that. I myself have no idea what to expect, if indeed anything. It's just that I stumbled upon something which eventually led me to identifying the date at which this age comes to it's close, and of course the time at which the next age will commence. What is to happen at, "The close of the age"? That is the big question. Read the Gospels, they have something to say about it, but that depends upon whether you accept the Gospels as, well, "Gospel truth". All I know is that identifying the date and time of the close of this age, is no different to us all being able to identify the exact time this year will end and next year begin. What, apart from a firework display or two, will happen at that moment? Nothing, except that everyone will wish each other a happy and prosperous New Year. However allot of people have plans to to be fulfilled during the coming year. The prophecies concerning the close of this age, originally a Zoroastrian concept, have however, as you can see, a very long history. Taken up by the Jews during sojourn as guests of Nebuchadnezar. it then transferred to Christianity via the man himself. There are other factors which I may introduce, or maybe not, depending upon any interest, that support "my?" theory. Whatever, it matters not allot, seeing as how the time is upon us. So not long before we will know whether there is anything in all of this. At least it's controversial and "Controversial" could be my middle name.
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