citydreams
on the road again
think they might be more inclined to be 'lender of last resort'
I agree with providing VPN support. But govt's not really known for its IT advice.
The future of public transport in London
- Thread starter citydreams
- Start date
think they might be more inclined to be 'lender of last resort'
I agree with providing VPN support. But govt's not really known for its IT advice.
citydreams
on the road again
This is the kind of thing!
The SMILE partners selected 14 champion cities in Europe (Aalborg, Berlin, Camden, Gent, Graz, Groningen, Krakow, La Rochelle, Lund, Modena, Nantes, Nottingham, Parma, Terrassa) that can show good practice examples of sustainable mobility. These cities invite you to learn from their sustainable transport policies. The SMILE Study Tour Catalogue (EN, ES) enables you to carry out study visits to these cities. This favours the exchange of know-how and the replication of good practices.
http://www.smile-europe.org/frame1.html
The SMILE partners selected 14 champion cities in Europe (Aalborg, Berlin, Camden, Gent, Graz, Groningen, Krakow, La Rochelle, Lund, Modena, Nantes, Nottingham, Parma, Terrassa) that can show good practice examples of sustainable mobility. These cities invite you to learn from their sustainable transport policies. The SMILE Study Tour Catalogue (EN, ES) enables you to carry out study visits to these cities. This favours the exchange of know-how and the replication of good practices.
http://www.smile-europe.org/frame1.html
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
Somehow I can't really see the GLA going for the idea of moving businesses out of London
Besides, for a number of the bigger ones, the option may be to move to Frankfurt or Paris instead of Newcastle or Bristol.
Mrs Magpie
On a bit of break...
Well, it ain't going to happen but I'd like to see the railways and canals used for freight more than lorries, as they were earlier in my lifetime and all non-essential car use banned in London. I actually remember a time when very few people had cars. It was great. MORE TRAMS!
PacificOcean
Unhinged User
How did the manage to network London with tram routes initailaly, as now it's going to cost billions just to have one running just from Camden to Brixton?
Prince Rhyus
Spokesman of King Antonio
I would call for more affordable homes that are closer to where people work. So none of this rahty-fuck luxury appartments for the spawn of gangsta capitalists or playboy princes from tinpot dictatorships.
That way there would be less pressure on the public transport network - especially during rush hour as people would be able to get too and from work on foot, and by having people living in the areas where people work means less need for CCTV and gated developments as the local inhabitants become the eyes and ears of the neighbourhood.
But hey, I'm a renegade environmentalist so what would I know?
That way there would be less pressure on the public transport network - especially during rush hour as people would be able to get too and from work on foot, and by having people living in the areas where people work means less need for CCTV and gated developments as the local inhabitants become the eyes and ears of the neighbourhood.
But hey, I'm a renegade environmentalist so what would I know?
Harold Hill
Jay Emm forgot his p/word
Somehow I can't really see the GLA going for the idea of moving businesses out of London
Besides, for a number of the bigger ones, the option may be to move to Frankfurt or Paris instead of Newcastle or Bristol.
In the banking sector? Very unlikely I think personally. There will always be a front office core in London and it would be impossible to transfer the skill set to any great degree as I don't think France or germany want to pay the billions in extra infrastructure needed. It would probably be easier to move Paris and Frankfurt finance jobs to London. With market volume the only movements out are back office/secondary back offices, mainly to Scotland/the north/Ireland
Harold Hill
Jay Emm forgot his p/word
Hi citydreams, thanks for coming here and discussing these sort of things. I say it as this sort of thing interests me a great deal. You sound like you're doing something I'd have laoved to have got into myself.
But can you be a bit clearer about the objectives of these studies. Is it to reduce car use and if so where in particular? Into zone 1? Or outside the central zones? Or generally in the peaks throughout London? Is it to reduce C02 ommissions? Or is to raise funds for reinvestment in the network? or all of the above? I only ask as I have a few theories but don't want to waffle on if its not about what you;re really asking.
citydreams
on the road again
In General...
...is there a scheme that could incentivise people to use public transport, and walk and cycle - but also allow people to make ‘limited private vehicle trips’ and meet the objectives of the Climate Change Action Plan whilst improving social accessibility?
A scheme could initially link Oyster to a ‘Green Points’ scheme, then combine these with Congestion Charging, before subsequently migrating to a ‘Green Travel Budget’ in which the use of certain modes (e.g. car) spends points whereas the use of others (walk and cycling) allows points to be saved. The scheme could be linked to other goods/services, allowing points to be redeemed for e.g., energy-efficient light bulb discounts, or bike purchases, etc.
In doing so a Green Travel Budget Scheme:
Could reduce the amount of travel by private vehicles.
Increase public transport use, but also encourage some short PT trips to move to walking or cycling.
Reduce CO2 from transport.
Reduce congestion.
Allow users to make certain trips uncharged.
A Green Travel Scheme could offer increased public acceptability through a wide range of incentives and rewards.
...is there a scheme that could incentivise people to use public transport, and walk and cycle - but also allow people to make ‘limited private vehicle trips’ and meet the objectives of the Climate Change Action Plan whilst improving social accessibility?
A scheme could initially link Oyster to a ‘Green Points’ scheme, then combine these with Congestion Charging, before subsequently migrating to a ‘Green Travel Budget’ in which the use of certain modes (e.g. car) spends points whereas the use of others (walk and cycling) allows points to be saved. The scheme could be linked to other goods/services, allowing points to be redeemed for e.g., energy-efficient light bulb discounts, or bike purchases, etc.
In doing so a Green Travel Budget Scheme:
Could reduce the amount of travel by private vehicles.
Increase public transport use, but also encourage some short PT trips to move to walking or cycling.
Reduce CO2 from transport.
Reduce congestion.
Allow users to make certain trips uncharged.
A Green Travel Scheme could offer increased public acceptability through a wide range of incentives and rewards.
How about issuing oyster cards to everyone, with a set number of free day travelcards (off-peak I guess)? Like two free days a month or something. I bet that would encourage a lot of people that only have to make occasional trips into central to use public transport.
I'm probably missing the point a little though.
I'm probably missing the point a little though.
girasol
Addicted to handstands!
citydreams
on the road again
We're trying!
citydreams
on the road again
Aye, that's the kind of idea..
Apparently National Express plans to introduce a loyalty scheme this year that will reward customers according to how green their journey is. The level of rewards will relate to how much CO2 passengers save by using public transport instead of their own vehicles. Rewards could include free upgrades on trains, free tickets, or free food/drink.
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
Paul F Witherington is Transport Watch, and he is rather rabidly pro road and anti railway: http://www.transwatch.co.uk/transport-fact-sheet-1.htm
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
EDIT- Crispy got in first
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
For the amount of infrastructure needed, the disruption caused building it and the capacity you'd need to run trams every 4-5 minutes and make them a decent size to work as an alternative transport for commuting.
I'd love to see a Tram going all the way up Streatham High Road to Brixton and then on into central london but I just can't see it happening unless they remove one lane of traffic each way.
I'd love to see a Tram going all the way up Streatham High Road to Brixton and then on into central london but I just can't see it happening unless they remove one lane of traffic each way.
Withrington is a lunatic, frankly.
A lot of evidence produced by who? for what end?
Yep. I suppose if you worship the free market,you will find nothing wrong in some areas being hugely overcrowded. But if you believe in any kind of sensible central planning the idea that some areas should be so overpopulated is preety bonkers.
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
Initially, private capital projects, such as London United Tramways in west London which were often brought into public ownership by borough Corporations under the Tramways Act of 1870 (e.g Croydon, Leyton and the London County Council).
Construction costs for horse tramways seem to have been surprisingly low by modern standards. In 1873, Birmingham Corporation built a line about 2 miles in length for £15,000 - a little over £1 million in today's money.
Trams made a profit in London till the mid-1930s, when the LPTB began to replace them with trolleybuses - which had negative effect on the profitability of the remaining trams as LT had to pay off the £18 million debt to the LCC for acquiring the tramways out of the revenues from the remaining tram systems. Probably one of the reasons it was cheaper for LT to ditch trams entirely after WWII when some major capital expenditure was required on the infrastructure
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
Well, like many of south London's broader streets, Streatham High Road was built to the width it is today so that it could accommodate trams - and the costs of widening and maintaining the road were borne at the time by the tram operators. So they do have some kind of moral right to be there
elevendayempire
Registered Loofah
Forgive me if I'm being thick, but...
Buses are rather large. Could they not generate at least some of their power from sticking solar panels on the roof? I'm sure there was a news story recently about cheap "solar sheeting"...
Buses are rather large. Could they not generate at least some of their power from sticking solar panels on the roof? I'm sure there was a news story recently about cheap "solar sheeting"...
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
The amount of power you could collect with such an area of solar panels would be tiny compared to that required to run the engine. Let me dig up some numbers...
Approx 1000 Watts/sq.m comes in from the sun
Really good solar cells are 20% efficient.
A london bus has a roof area of approx 40 sq.m.
So that's 1000 x 40 x .2 = 8000 Watts or 8kW.
A typical bus engine might be a 6 litre diesel, producing 350hp = 260,000 Watts or 260kW.
So we see that even today's best solar cells could only provide 3% of the power required to move a heavy bus around.
(couldn't find a useful figure for the hp of a typical london bus so googled for some approximations)
g force
Affects Shatner's Basoon
Well, like many of south London's broader streets, Streatham High Road was built to the width it is today so that it could accommodate trams - and the costs of widening and maintaining the road were borne at the time by the tram operators. So they do have some kind of moral right to be there
Well yes indeed but I can't imagine it ever happening unless you completely replaced buses with Trams on Streatham High Road. Not that it would necessairly be a bad thing IMO....big Tram station in the new development planned for the Go Kart track area running up the High Road, through Brixton and onwards
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Bare in mind health and safety, wages and the way workers were treated were also surprisingly shit by modern standards.....
cybertect
It's grim up north (London)
Oh quite, but that works out at a little over £300,000 per km.
The Croydon Tramlink, with 28km of track, cost £200 million. Subtract £35m for the cost of the Bombardier trams and it works out at £5.89m/km - and that was with it running over a fair bit of cannibalised heavy-rail line to Wimbledon.
That's still quite a difference, even taking into account what you mention.
Any particular reason for this? Do the people having these "theroretical" discussions think it might be a tad unpopular if it becomes public knowledge before the election?
Politicians... different parties, all the same.
Also, is the proposal to run this instead of the current charges £8/£25 etc or in in conjunction with them?
Persoanally I think its a crazy idea that will cost (despite the budget neutral comments above) millions and millions of pounds which could probably be better spent elsewhere.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Indeed, if Livingstone (or Boris for that matter) wants to do this (road pricing), they should seek a mandate by putting it in their manifesto.
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