The Future of Brixton

[Agent Sparrow]

That was why I was so careful to say that obviously many of these looks are probably a sign of racism to varying degrees, but no, I still think you can ask people to not assume that everyone around them is racist, or at least challenge any perceptions they have of that. It might well be a case of everyone around them being racist, I'm not denying that, but there was just something about the OP which sounded a bit like "all white people in Brixton are racist". I think she picked up on that herself by saying she didn't mean to be. While white on black racism is horrible and wrong, seeing it in places where it doesn't actually exist doesn't help anyone. Sounds pretty much the same as saying all men are sexist.

If I see a man look at me for longer than is normally polite should I automatically assume he's undressing me with his eyes?

 

[phildwyer]

If I see a man look at me for longer than is normally polite should I automatically assume he's undressing me with his eyes?

Yes. Equally, if someone clutches their handbag tighter when a black man walks past, you can assume they fear he is going to rob them.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

"because white people don't have much contact with black people until they move to an area like Brixton, and even after that don't get proper conversational contact."

Why don't they get proper conversational contact?

Why are some people so incapable or unwilling to make true friends out of their race?

I'd say these days mainly because many people don't make friends from their area, they instead make friends at work. Many people don't talk to people they don't know in pubs and stuff. I guess that is one of the sad things of gentrification is that it leads to the community falling down because of this unwillingness to communicate with others in the area. I agree it's really sad, but I would challenge that in all cases it's necessarily about racism. In many, granted, it very sadly is...

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Yes. Equally, if someone clutches their handbag tighter when a black man walks past, you can assume they fear he is going to rob them.

Phil, if I said that on here I'd be laughed at and flamed most likely (the bit about being undressed with men's eyes).

The handbag thing is definately a sign of racism though I conceed, or of course possibly classism (or a combination) but it's not the same as a slightly lingering look.

 

[William of Walworth]

Spent a long time catching this thread, mostly this morning. Agent Sparrow is making some sensible points IMO.

Would like to add more but time is limited just now ...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

That was why I was so careful to say that obviously many of these looks are probably a sign of racism to varying degrees, but no, I still think you can ask people to not assume that everyone around them is racist, or at least challenge any perceptions they have of that.

Well, not really, because we're talking about visceral, even subconscious reactions. We're not talking about somebody rationally analysing a situation and summing it up, we're talking about what else happens, what mental reactions we have in a society where we are divided and we are sometimes afraid of one another.

 

[Agent Sparrow]

Well, not really, because we're talking about visceral, even subconscious reactions. We're not talking about somebody rationally analysing a situation and summing it up, we're talking about what else happens, what mental reactions we have in a society where we are divided and we are sometimes afraid of one another.

Well, the only thing we can do about those things is try and be as self aware as possible, and when we find thoughts we might find disturbing and prejudiced to then try and challenge them. You can't challenge your own unconscious perceptions of other people until you become aware of them, it's the first step. I do totally agree with you, but I still think people should remain as self aware as they can, and ask themselves questions which might even come up with uncomfortable answers.

Anyway, that wasn't quite what I've been getting at, perhaps I haven't explained myself very well. What I was also trying to get at is that it's quite well known that you see what you look for/expect. If you expect a certain behaviour in a certain group of people, then you'll be hyper attuned to when it happens, forget the times when it doesn't happen, and interpret it as happening in innocuous situations. Of course this is another really important mechanism in maintaining prejudices.

I would like to be very explicit in saying that I am not acusing the thread starter of doing this, I am just posing the question that perhaps because she has been on the receiving end of such racist shittiness as she mentions (which I am not invalidating by asking this), whether she now possibly is a little hyper aware of it and sees it where it does not exist. At times. Of course the answer might be no, that's for the thread starter to think about herself, like how I said we need to self-analyse these things in my first paragraph.

 

[William of Walworth]

That's all very reasonable and makes a lot of sense.

The process of better self awareness, and awareness about how you're interacting with other people, is hardly likely to be helped though by aggressive suggestions from others that your reactions are motivated by an undercurrent of racism (at the expense of allowing for other possibilities). Such accusations are counterproductive IMO.

 

[phildwyer]

That's all very reasonable and makes a lot of sense.

The process of better self awareness, and awareness about how you're interacting with other people, is hardly likely to be helped though by aggressive suggestions from others that your reactions are motivated by an undercurrent of racism (at the expense of allowing for other possibilities). Such accusations are counterproductive IMO.

I think it is necessary to expose racism wherever it is found, and that it is salutary for those who are unconsciously racist to be informed of that fact.

 

[William of Walworth]

I think it is necessary to expose racism wherever it is found, and that it is salutary for those who are unconsciously racist to be informed of that fact.

I'm sure they're deeply grateful but have you ever considered that there might be ways of doing that that are less likely to be successful than others?

Counterproductivity is a terrible thing.