The future for the left in the UK

[poster342002]

The small problem with this is the left hate the workers and the poor,

For once, I'll agree with you. It certainly seems to hate them nowadays, at any rate. Having said that, so does the right, of course.

 

[audiotech]

The small problem with this is the left hate the workers and the poor,

That piece of inspiration was from a lefty who ended up as a writer for the Guardian. Unfortunately, he died of a brain hemorrhage in the mid 70's. His comments were directed at Paul Foot, when Foot had a political wobble at the time.

 

[hibee]

If the left continues to fetishise a method of organising based on a revolution thousands of miles away 90 years ago which, by any measure, has repeatedly failed in this country, it will become even more of an anachronism than it already is.

 

[Fedayn]

If the left continues to fetishise a method of organising based on a revolution thousands of miles away 90 years ago which, by any measure, has repeatedly failed in this country, it will become even more of an anachronism than it already is.

What would you suggest 'The Left' do then Hibee??

 

[hibee]

For a start I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers: people thinking they do is a large part of the problem in the first place.

I'm not going to write a manifesto: I'm tired and you can scroll through my posts and see what I stand for. But first, there needs to be a recognition that the left's methods of working have, by any measure, failed. Second, try and build up confidence in working class communities by finding out what people are concerned about and getting things done on the back of it - rather than lecturing the working class about what they should be interested in. And on the back of that, orientate yourselves to communites - reflecting a changed society where it makes more sense to focus on where they live than where they work. And stop wasting so much time trying to capture the working class's "leaders" in unions when these people's influence is lower than ever (I say this as a workplace rep myself).

And if of course this doesn't deliver us to jerusalem, then have another think about where things went right and where things went wrong - just don't do as the trots do and assume the answers were set out for us by a helpful russian gentleman 90 years ago.

 

[Fedayn]

For a start I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers: people thinking they do is a large part of the problem in the first place.

I'm not going to write a manifesto: I'm tired and you can scroll through my posts and see what I stand for. But first, there needs to be a recognition that the left's methods of working have, by any measure, failed. Second, try and build up confidence in working class communities by finding out what people are concerned about and getting things done on the back of it - rather than lecturing the working class about what they should be interested in. And on the back of that, orientate yourselves to communites - reflecting a changed society where it makes more sense to focus on where they live than where they work. And stop wasting so much time trying to capture the working class's "leaders" in unions when these people's influence is lower than ever (I say this as a workplace rep myself).

And if of course this doesn't deliver us to jerusalem, then have another think about where things went right and where things went wrong - just don't do as the trots do and assume the answers were set out for us by a helpful russian gentleman 90 years ago.

Can't disagree with alot of that. The relative importance of community/workplaces is a point for debate.

I have a certain synpathy for the politics of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky. Not to mention Connolly, Maclean, and others who have inspired.

I have a sympathy forgetting decent fighting TU leaders. As a PCS rep the change in my union since the attempted coup a few years back has most definitely made the fight for afighting leadership worth the effort.

 

[fanta]

Where do you place the Lib-Dems, politically? They are generally recognised as the "centre" party of UK politics. How come we have not been ruled by a Lib Dem govt for decades?

I agree, generally centre, though at the minute centre-left.

Because we don't proportional representation?

 

[poster342002]

If the left continues to fetishise a method of organising based on a revolution thousands of miles away 90 years ago which, by any measure, has repeatedly failed in this country,

It wasn't exactly a roaring success in Russia, either.

 

[poster342002]

I agree, generally centre, though at the minute centre-left.

I think they only appear centre-left at the moment becuase all the other parties have moved so far to the right over the last 10 years or so. The Lib Dems have just remained pretty much where they've always been, left-right alignment wise while all the others have passed by them to the right. This, by default, would place them to the left of all the others at the moment but it's not really saying much, imo.

 

[Chuck Wilson]

In my opinion ,and obviously I am not an expert in this area the only conclusion that leaps out is that internationalism has shaken the planet – now it must change it.

To transform the imperialist “War on Terrorism” into a global war on imperialist terror, to set millions in motion against the system that causes war, our unions and parties, our networks, forums and co-ordinations need to take a new and bold step: the formation of a Global Party of Socialist Revolution – the Fifth International.

I call on the hundreds of thousands that have assembled at continental and world social forums, the trade unions and anti-capitalist initiatives that have linked up in action around the world, , the revolutionary youth to unite at the highest possible level. This means forming the new International as soon as possible – not in the distant future but in the period ahead.

Anyone else agree?


It's either that or playing music at Weatherspoons knowing full well they haven't a license and have a no music policy, there is no middle road.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I thought we were on five Internationals already. Or was that Internationals on channel five?

 

[poster342002]

our unions and parties, our networks, forums and co-ordinations need to take a new and bold step: the formation of a Global Party of Socialist Revolution – the Fifth International.

Probably too late - most of those orgnisations are probably now hopelesly co-opted and stuffed full of establishment lackies and wannabes. As such, they'll probably never perform the function you outline.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I think, poster, that your Gag Detector may have taken the evening off.

 

[poster342002]

I think, poster, that your Gag Detector may have taken the evening off.

Oh. Sorry - feeling a bit tired at the moment!

 

[rebel warrior]

Forward to the Sixth International!

In my opinion ,and obviously I am not an expert in this area the only conclusion that leaps out is that internationalism has shaken the planet – now it must change it.

To transform the imperialist “War on Terrorism” into a global war on imperialist terror, to set millions in motion against the system that causes war, our unions and parties, our networks, forums and co-ordinations need to take a new and bold step: the formation of a Global Party of Socialist Revolution – the Fifth International.

I call on the hundreds of thousands that have assembled at continental and world social forums, the trade unions and anti-capitalist initiatives that have linked up in action around the world, , the revolutionary youth to unite at the highest possible level. This means forming the new International as soon as possible – not in the distant future but in the period ahead.

Anyone else agree?


It's either that or playing music at Weatherspoons knowing full well they haven't a license and have a no music policy, there is no middle road.

I absolutely agree with the need for a forming a new International now, Comrade Wilson. However, surely you can see that the Fifth International is bankrupt politically - and already too compromised with the existing system and reformism? Only a Sixth International can arguably lead the billions against the billionaires in the pre-revolutionary period we are in.

Some will say that it is 'pie in the sky' thinking to talk of a Sixth International in 2005. Those historical pessimists are simply epigones of Marxism who have already given up on revolutionary struggle. We know these wet liberals well. They lack the proletarian discipline necessary for the tasks ahead.

However, since the Provisional Committee for a Central Committee for a League of the Sixth International (PCCCLSI) was established a few weeks ago, we have already made remarkable progress. In ten years time billions will rally to our banner, but it is worth spelling out what we have achieved in ten days.

Last week we made contact with the Proletarian Party of American Workers (PPAW), who agreed with the perspectives for a Sixth International outlined in our first document ('From building a Workers Power Hammer to building Socialism in the 22nd century'). We hope that in time the most advanced workers of all countries will rally to our banner. But they will not find that banner if we keep it stored away, waiting for 'the right time' to unfurl it! Given we are now an international group, it was declared time to unfurl the banner of the Sixth International immediately and openly in front of the class.

Our new organisation, the League for the Sixth International (Provisional Committee for a Central Committee - Proletarian Party of American Workers) or LSI (PCCC-PPAW) has therefore now been born!

Forward to the Sixth International!

Join LSI (PCCC-PPAW)!

 

[cockneyrebel]

Why oh why do you keep attempting humour RW? That is fucking awlful.

And maybe you could also dislodge your tongue from Chuck Wilsons arse while you're at it.

 

[rebel warrior]

Humour, Comrade cockneyrebel? The real political 'jokes' are those supposedly 'Marxist' organisations already lining up to denounce our new organisation and to seek to make fun of it. People are already referring to it as 'LSI (Piss - Poor)' for some reason which I still cannot quite understand.

Still, we are certain that our new organisation will emerge from the slurs of the petty bourgeois epigones and renegades stronger and more determined than ever.

 

[cockneyrebel]

What can I say......

 

[Solidarnosc]

Come on cockers, it was a fair cop, with all this "Fifth International" malarkey.

Pub?