The fuss about Big Brother and petty racism.
- Thread starter taffboy gwyrdd
- Start date
renegadechicken
Live and don't learn, that's me.
Well i only watched it after all the bollocks on the radio for aout 10 minutes, and yes i think it is racist, yes there is clearly bullying but talking with my friends and from first hand experience this is life..thick white trash having a pop at colour and race and culture due to totaly ingnorance and jealously.....
i cant believe that it hasn't been pulled yet...channel 4 have now lost sponsership deals over it ...............
i cant believe that it hasn't been pulled yet...channel 4 have now lost sponsership deals over it ...............
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh REALLY? So all working class people without advantages early in life are 'thick trash' are they?renegadechicken said:
god, m/c liberals like you must be practically knocking one off with the sheer joy of being able to put us plebs back in our lowly place!
rhys gethin
New Member
Red Jezza said:oh REALLY? So all working class people without advantages early in life are 'thick trash' are they?
god, m/c liberals like you must be practically knocking one off with the sheer joy of being able to put us plebs back in our lowly place!
Where did it say anything about 'all working class people'? Do you want to identify with the offensive persons talked about because of such things as accent? For myself, I'd avoid words like 'trash', which are just as bad as the words in the awful programme complained of. I'd prefer adjectives like 'mannerless', 'ill-educated', 'gross' or 'pig-ignorant'. Nobody HAS to be any of those things - it is a matter of choice and self-contemptuous self-satisfaction. 'Nothing is too good for the working class', in my view.
rhys gethin said:
Yes, the working class defence gets right up my working class-bred nose. It's effectively saying, "they are working class, so ignorance is to be expected", in other words, defending the indefensible on grounds of class is actually an insult to the class. Ignorance, racism, bullying are the behaviour of bad people, regardless of class.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
OK, but I've heard comments like that so often frequently from the sort of hampstead wiberwals whose elitist attitudes and anti-worker prejudices/hidden agenda are so pitifully ill-concealed, and so poisonous, that I can't help make that jump. and that poster DId use the word trash, which i find really offensive.rhys gethin said:
JHE
.
I haven't been watching CBB - but I've seen reports on the telly, heard reports on the radio and seen massive newspaper coverage. Jade Goody and others, I gathered, were universally seen as nasty racist bullies.
(The snippets I'd seen just made me think that it was a case of what a C4 boss aptly called "playground bitchiness")
It was interesting this evening to read a response from someone who has watched a lot of CBB.
I found it an eye-opener. Nothing I have seen or heard in the news media had given me any idea that there was another side to the story and that Jade Goody was on the receiving end of bullying.
Posted on another message board:
(The snippets I'd seen just made me think that it was a case of what a C4 boss aptly called "playground bitchiness")
It was interesting this evening to read a response from someone who has watched a lot of CBB.
I found it an eye-opener. Nothing I have seen or heard in the news media had given me any idea that there was another side to the story and that Jade Goody was on the receiving end of bullying.
Posted on another message board:
you do know that jade had to skip a lot of school in order to care for her disabled, drug addict mother? so all this stuff about her being "common" "from the slums" "ill mannered" "disgraceful" "stupid" "thick" "ill educated" "needing elocution" etc thats been chucked at her inside the house by someone who is part of the wealthy class (even has a bunch of "servants") is fucking unbelievable imo. nobody cares about that though because jade isnt pretending to cry about it. jade has put up with a couple of weeks worth of class based abuse in there, in her position id have chucked something at shilpas head within a couple of days.
i cannot get over the amount of hypocritical bullshit being slung about the press, accusing jade of being a bully, by people who are from much wealthier and more educated backgrounds than hers, all calling her a fat, gross, ugly, stupid, racist, slag, bitch, pig, dog, all over the tv, papers, radios.. and she doesnt even have the ability to respond. unbelievable.
...until yesterday, there had been no evidence of racism from jade whatsoever. note that the accusations have been flying all week. sky news have been covering it pretty much 24/7 but, amazingly, they had no actual clips of anything even remotely resembling racism, to show. so the best the press has come up with was:
jack (jades bf) allegedly calling shilpa a "paki" - this was a misunderstanding brought on because C4 bleeped him. but what he actually called her, was a "cunt". funny that once that came out the allegation sort of just disappeared with an 'oh well, we all make mistakes, he might have been thinking it though'. noone cares about the sexism of calling her a cunt, i noticed.
danielle told her to go home. shown on its own, as it mostly was, it looked bad. in context - shilpa has on countless occasions done the "oh im so unhappy here, i want to go home" drama bit - check this shit out - she even has a pair of fairy wings she wears when she's depressed, with the double puropose of cheering her up, and notifying everyone that shilpa needs love. seriously.
so, bearing in mind also that they are in the big brother house, and shilpa had just been saying she was fed up of them (danielle and co) and wanted to go, danielle said oh go home. not "go home to india". just, oh fuck off already. big fucking difference, if you give a shit about context anyway.
jackiey (jades mum - and yeh she does spell it that way..) couldnt pronounce shilpa. this of course is the worst racism ever. in context - jackiey is an ex drug addict with severe learning difficulties. but hey, couldnt pronounce her name, clear case of evil racist bitch there. oh yeh - interesting to note that shilpa struggled to pronounce a couple of the others names, but thatw asnt an issue. jackiey called shilpa 'princess', with her blessing no less, until shilpa was fucked off, then it became a big issue. cue shilpa shouting at jackiey to get her name right. this was an example of racism against shilpa. or it could have been an example of someone bullying an older woman with severe learning difficulties. it all depends on yr perspective.
note that the very night jade and her mum went into the house, shilpa ran to the bathroom with jermaine jackson and they had a sneaky little bitching session about the noobs. talked about how they couldnt stand to be around such awful people, etc. they both resolved to avoid jades "awful" family as much as possible.
note also that shilpa has repeatedly mimiced danielle and jades accents. laughed (behind their backs of course) about how uncultured they are whilst doing it too. she told danielle to learn to speak english. she told jade she needed lessons in manners and elocution. imagine being from a working class background and having someone like shilpa - a woman who has been waited on hand and foot her whole life - tell you you needed to learn to speak properly and that you have awful manners. honestly i would have fucking decked her, im surprised at the restraint anyone has shown.
so anyway, yeh shilpa has been mocking their accents and telling them they should learn to speak english. thats fine, apparently. when jo mimiced shilpas accent - woah, racist!
theres been soooooo many arguments over this stuff. another "racist" comment was when jade referred to "slums". what wasnt shown repeatedly on tv was that it was shilpa who slagged off jades background, and jade (shouting) retorted that shilpa ought to spend some time in slums herself. somehow that got spun as jade being racist, i dont know how.
there have been a number of "oh ffs jade and co" moments. during conversation with shilpa (ie not during an argument) danielle asked if people ate with their hands in india. and i sighed, deeply. and someone (jade maybe?) asked if they live in huts. and i sighed some more. yeh theyre fucking ignorant but, lets be fair here, despite all the statements from india "we have no race problems! we are a tolerant society!", im pretty damn certain that, in fact, some people in india do live in huts. probably shilpas servants (she calls them "my servants" ffs, how fucking annoying is that?).
and look at these two women. i dont know danielles background but i have a good old idea of jades. the closest shes probably come to india is watching indiana jones and the temple of doom. shes inexperienced and ignorant, but racist for asking the question? im not sure about that.
so anyway. yeh. so jade has now (!) said something racist. she referred to shilpa as "shilpa popadom". yeh, i know. its pretty disgraceful. of course, ive known a few irish guys who everyone calls paddy and welsh guys everyone calls taffy, and my mum had a friend she always called black jenny. you know, we live in a racist society where stuff like that is taken for granted. people still talk about chinkys and pakis and not everyone, yet, knows that theres anything wrong with that. of course the upper middle classes tut over it but ive heard their conversations too "this little boy in my class - hes black - did.." etc. no need to point out the kids colour but hey, thats less racist than saying "this black boy in my class". or is it? is it any different at all?
so lots of interesting questions raised by all this, and i think it might be a good thing that these things are brought to peoples attention (i say might because personally, the way this was done, im thinking theres gonna be a backlash).
but i dont see how jade is a supreme fucking racist for saying 'poppadom', but shilpas okay with all the stuff shes said about jade. and all the comments shes made about the "sort of girl" danielle is because she wears short skirts and behaves "unladylike". oh my god i could rant on for pages about the insinuations shes made about the 'sort of girl' danielle is.
anyway - yeh theres been some fucking daft stuff going on. but its all been totally overblown in the media. why? another reason to slam white working class girls? perhaps there was someting they really didnt want to report going on elsewhere and its all smokescreen. who knows. but its all fucking bollocks.
i cannot get over the amount of hypocritical bullshit being slung about the press, accusing jade of being a bully, by people who are from much wealthier and more educated backgrounds than hers, all calling her a fat, gross, ugly, stupid, racist, slag, bitch, pig, dog, all over the tv, papers, radios.. and she doesnt even have the ability to respond. unbelievable.
...until yesterday, there had been no evidence of racism from jade whatsoever. note that the accusations have been flying all week. sky news have been covering it pretty much 24/7 but, amazingly, they had no actual clips of anything even remotely resembling racism, to show. so the best the press has come up with was:
jack (jades bf) allegedly calling shilpa a "paki" - this was a misunderstanding brought on because C4 bleeped him. but what he actually called her, was a "cunt". funny that once that came out the allegation sort of just disappeared with an 'oh well, we all make mistakes, he might have been thinking it though'. noone cares about the sexism of calling her a cunt, i noticed.
danielle told her to go home. shown on its own, as it mostly was, it looked bad. in context - shilpa has on countless occasions done the "oh im so unhappy here, i want to go home" drama bit - check this shit out - she even has a pair of fairy wings she wears when she's depressed, with the double puropose of cheering her up, and notifying everyone that shilpa needs love. seriously.
so, bearing in mind also that they are in the big brother house, and shilpa had just been saying she was fed up of them (danielle and co) and wanted to go, danielle said oh go home. not "go home to india". just, oh fuck off already. big fucking difference, if you give a shit about context anyway.
jackiey (jades mum - and yeh she does spell it that way..) couldnt pronounce shilpa. this of course is the worst racism ever. in context - jackiey is an ex drug addict with severe learning difficulties. but hey, couldnt pronounce her name, clear case of evil racist bitch there. oh yeh - interesting to note that shilpa struggled to pronounce a couple of the others names, but thatw asnt an issue. jackiey called shilpa 'princess', with her blessing no less, until shilpa was fucked off, then it became a big issue. cue shilpa shouting at jackiey to get her name right. this was an example of racism against shilpa. or it could have been an example of someone bullying an older woman with severe learning difficulties. it all depends on yr perspective.
note that the very night jade and her mum went into the house, shilpa ran to the bathroom with jermaine jackson and they had a sneaky little bitching session about the noobs. talked about how they couldnt stand to be around such awful people, etc. they both resolved to avoid jades "awful" family as much as possible.
note also that shilpa has repeatedly mimiced danielle and jades accents. laughed (behind their backs of course) about how uncultured they are whilst doing it too. she told danielle to learn to speak english. she told jade she needed lessons in manners and elocution. imagine being from a working class background and having someone like shilpa - a woman who has been waited on hand and foot her whole life - tell you you needed to learn to speak properly and that you have awful manners. honestly i would have fucking decked her, im surprised at the restraint anyone has shown.
so anyway, yeh shilpa has been mocking their accents and telling them they should learn to speak english. thats fine, apparently. when jo mimiced shilpas accent - woah, racist!
theres been soooooo many arguments over this stuff. another "racist" comment was when jade referred to "slums". what wasnt shown repeatedly on tv was that it was shilpa who slagged off jades background, and jade (shouting) retorted that shilpa ought to spend some time in slums herself. somehow that got spun as jade being racist, i dont know how.
there have been a number of "oh ffs jade and co" moments. during conversation with shilpa (ie not during an argument) danielle asked if people ate with their hands in india. and i sighed, deeply. and someone (jade maybe?) asked if they live in huts. and i sighed some more. yeh theyre fucking ignorant but, lets be fair here, despite all the statements from india "we have no race problems! we are a tolerant society!", im pretty damn certain that, in fact, some people in india do live in huts. probably shilpas servants (she calls them "my servants" ffs, how fucking annoying is that?).
and look at these two women. i dont know danielles background but i have a good old idea of jades. the closest shes probably come to india is watching indiana jones and the temple of doom. shes inexperienced and ignorant, but racist for asking the question? im not sure about that.
so anyway. yeh. so jade has now (!) said something racist. she referred to shilpa as "shilpa popadom". yeh, i know. its pretty disgraceful. of course, ive known a few irish guys who everyone calls paddy and welsh guys everyone calls taffy, and my mum had a friend she always called black jenny. you know, we live in a racist society where stuff like that is taken for granted. people still talk about chinkys and pakis and not everyone, yet, knows that theres anything wrong with that. of course the upper middle classes tut over it but ive heard their conversations too "this little boy in my class - hes black - did.." etc. no need to point out the kids colour but hey, thats less racist than saying "this black boy in my class". or is it? is it any different at all?
so lots of interesting questions raised by all this, and i think it might be a good thing that these things are brought to peoples attention (i say might because personally, the way this was done, im thinking theres gonna be a backlash).
but i dont see how jade is a supreme fucking racist for saying 'poppadom', but shilpas okay with all the stuff shes said about jade. and all the comments shes made about the "sort of girl" danielle is because she wears short skirts and behaves "unladylike". oh my god i could rant on for pages about the insinuations shes made about the 'sort of girl' danielle is.
anyway - yeh theres been some fucking daft stuff going on. but its all been totally overblown in the media. why? another reason to slam white working class girls? perhaps there was someting they really didnt want to report going on elsewhere and its all smokescreen. who knows. but its all fucking bollocks.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
haylz said:
it is not out of proportion to say that Channel 4 has been soft on bullying and racism. I might dig around or ring up and ask them what their policy is because they sure as fuck aint followed it here. This is a disasterous message to put out, especially given the amount of children who follow the show.
mmm, perhaps puts thing in a new light, maybe?
[/QUOTE]Posted on another message board:
you do know that jade had to skip a lot of school in order to care for her disabled, drug addict mother? so all this stuff about her being "common" "from the slums" "ill mannered" "disgraceful" "stupid" "thick" "ill educated" "needing elocution" etc thats been chucked at her inside the house by someone who is part of the wealthy class (even has a bunch of "servants") is fucking unbelievable imo. nobody cares about that though because jade isnt pretending to cry about it. jade has put up with a couple of weeks worth of class based abuse in there, in her position id have chucked something at shilpas head within a couple of days.
[/QUOTE]Posted on another message board:
you do know that jade had to skip a lot of school in order to care for her disabled, drug addict mother? so all this stuff about her being "common" "from the slums" "ill mannered" "disgraceful" "stupid" "thick" "ill educated" "needing elocution" etc thats been chucked at her inside the house by someone who is part of the wealthy class (even has a bunch of "servants") is fucking unbelievable imo. nobody cares about that though because jade isnt pretending to cry about it. jade has put up with a couple of weeks worth of class based abuse in there, in her position id have chucked something at shilpas head within a couple of days.
taffboy gwyrdd said:
If my child had resorted to watching big brother; if she couldn’t find better entertainment in doing kid stuff like kicking out against established order – after all, BB is now firmly establishment. I would consider myself a failure as a father if my child watched such mind-numbing shite. Her experimenting with cigarettes, booze, drugs and sex would be preferable.
i agree
This is greatI was trying to make these points about the class anger Jade must feel on another post but again I was told That Jade did not struggle for anything but Shilpa did ie she spoke 6 languages....I feel for Jade.I watched cbb and myself coming from a poor etc background would have def decked Shilpa!.Its her self belief her core belief that she is better than the other woman.Her assumption her non questioning of her rights tec that is annoying.Jade would have had to fight hugely to believe that she was worth something.England is a real class society and hates "lumpens"
JHE said:
This is greatI was trying to make these points about the class anger Jade must feel on another post but again I was told That Jade did not struggle for anything but Shilpa did ie she spoke 6 languages....I feel for Jade.I watched cbb and myself coming from a poor etc background would have def decked Shilpa!.Its her self belief her core belief that she is better than the other woman.Her assumption her non questioning of her rights tec that is annoying.Jade would have had to fight hugely to believe that she was worth something.England is a real class society and hates "lumpens"
AN Wilson's op ed piece on this issue in the Daily Mail today makes the agenda of the tabloid media blatantly obvious. His/The real target is not racism (which was definitely present in the bullying IMO), not Jade and her cronies (one of whom is the daughter of a bank manager and an engineer, despite all her 'street' front), but the British Working Class of all races. Wilson harps on about how India is a lovely civilised place today due to British Imperialism, whilst Britons (apart from presumably the middle class DM-reading curtain-twitchers) have become "savages" (I kid you not - he actually uses these words. ) Wilson reveals the hatred and fear that lie at the base of the hysterical reaction. The joke is that the rampant individualism and competetive thuggishness that Wilson sees engulfing this "once proud nation" has, (where it does exist) as its major cause not the "trendy education" policy or bourgeois liberals (traitors to their class and country in Wilson's eyes) that the columnist fingers, but the very socio-economic dynamic of advanced capitalism that papers like the Mail spend every day shoring up. This dynamic atomises communities, sells images of unrestrained hedonism as an ideal and ridicules any one who holds to any ideology, belief or lifestyle that does not fully support the direction of march. Bourgeois liberals and education policy are as subject to this dynamic as anything else.
And now Ken Livingstone is apparently joining in with his tuppenny agenda calling for the the dreadful "racist" Channel Four to have it's franchise revoked - You couldn't make it up.....
) Wilson reveals the hatred and fear that lie at the base of the hysterical reaction. The joke is that the rampant individualism and competetive thuggishness that Wilson sees engulfing this "once proud nation" has, (where it does exist) as its major cause not the "trendy education" policy or bourgeois liberals (traitors to their class and country in Wilson's eyes) that the columnist fingers, but the very socio-economic dynamic of advanced capitalism that papers like the Mail spend every day shoring up. This dynamic atomises communities, sells images of unrestrained hedonism as an ideal and ridicules any one who holds to any ideology, belief or lifestyle that does not fully support the direction of march. Bourgeois liberals and education policy are as subject to this dynamic as anything else.And now Ken Livingstone is apparently joining in with his tuppenny agenda calling for the the dreadful "racist" Channel Four to have it's franchise revoked - You couldn't make it up.....
The piece that JHE quoted above is the best thing I've read on this so far. A lot of people are very quick to make damning judgements without looking at the context. Jermaine Jackson can call someone 'white trash' and the response is what? Nothing. There was a particularly disgusting pice by Stuart Jeffries in the Guardian where he refers to 'ugly, thick white Britain'.
Without a shadow of a doubt an anti w/c agenda exists in the media and middle classes (not everyone), and it is partly due to guilt. Better to blame the underclass (for example) for being what they are, then to take any responsibility or recognise how some people benefit from the misery of others.
Without a shadow of a doubt an anti w/c agenda exists in the media and middle classes (not everyone), and it is partly due to guilt. Better to blame the underclass (for example) for being what they are, then to take any responsibility or recognise how some people benefit from the misery of others.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
I think you're all participating in the game exactly the way C4/Endemol want you to.
er, no it wasn't , there is still massive debate about whether it was racism, bullying or even class hatred(now theres a word you don't hear very often in the mass media I wouldn't have voted for either of them but it was the media and mendacious politicians who made it 'a vote against racism', including the odious and careerist Lee Jasper, something that could have backfired disasterously.
interesting viewpoint from Mary Riddell in the Observer
excerpt
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1995238,00.html
excerpt
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1995238,00.html
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
I don't think that's true. The "prole" BB in 2005 was noticeably divided on race lines (about half the original contestants were Black or Asian). Compared to this CBB I'd say there was much more sustained and overt racism from the Maxwell/Saskia/Craig axis, and a number of dips in sound that clearly cut out the dodgiest remarks from already dodgy conversations. Parts of the media did remark on it at the time, I'd assume that there were plenty of complaints, there's a fair bit in the digitalspy archives about it, and on here IIRC. It just so happened that none of the protagonists or the main target (Science) were "celebrities" with fans capable of kick-starting a diplomatic incident.Fruitloop said:
Jade getting kicked out this time, given the press coverage, was a foregone conclusion. Maxwell getting booted when up against Science was much more of a surprise, but IMO, it was for much the same reasons despite the fact that the media were not so united in condemnation of Maxwell et al at that time.
Sweaty Betty
Hemo rising!
AURORA said:
quite
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
jesus wept are you REALLY this dense?JimPage said:
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll
