The format wars - Full Frame vs MFT vs APS-C etc.

Discussion in 'photography, graphics & art' started by alsoknownas, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    It does not bother me how many there are, I doubt I will be in the market for one if at all, for many many years.
     
  2. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Yeah, I agree really. It's just that, when you're getting ready to spend what (for me) is a huge amount on something, these voices can get under your skin and make you a little nervous of your purchase.
     
  3. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    What cameras are you considering alsoknownas?
     
  4. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Probably gonna get a GH5S. Often low-light is a major consideration for me (for work).
     
  5. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

  6. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    I know someone with a Panny, they swear by it, don't know the exact model though.
     
  7. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    I've been using the GH4 for quite a while now. It's one of the best cameras I've ever used, and that includes dedicated cinema cameras, film cameras, and other hybrids, etc.

    For useability, and video functions, it's so well designed. Lots of small incremental things that added together create a much better shooting experience than I've had with similar cameras. *massive* battery life, loads of programmable inputs (5 function buttons, 5 virtual buttons + a quick menu), plenty of tools - peaking, histogram, monochrome live view (helps with focusing), etc. A real dream to use.

    I'm just starting to outgrow it's shooting ability now though. I'm hoping the GH5S will offer a similarly satisfying experience.
     
  8. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    There's one department where full frame spanks the bijou bottoms of APS-C and MFT and that's low light photography. I wish there was cameras as small as my OMD-D/Ricoh GR that could capture low light as well as my Sony RX1.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  9. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Yeah, I'm looking at the GH5S specifically because of it's lauded low-light capabilities at MFT. But it's nowhere near as compact as the Ricoh GR.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Actually, you never know, Panny might do a GX (compact) variant with the same low-light sensor. Worth looking out for.
     
  11. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    [​IMG]
    That would actually be pretty close in size (though not so much weight) with a pancake lens.
     
  12. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Unless you've got MC Hammer pants there's no way would that Lumix fit in a normal trouser back pocket.
     
  13. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    I know - I've got it. Took it away with me recently. Was not pocketable. I'd like a camera that was a cross between the Lumix X15 and the X100.
     
  14. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    This smarmy fella reckons it's all going down the plug-hole (and revives some of the debates we were having over lenses, lol). Mind you, I notice he leaves the lens hoods on the ones he wants us to think of as long :rolleyes:.

     
  15. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    He's talking utter bollocks. My Olympus 24mm-70mm f2.8 is hugely smaller than the equivalent full frame camera.
     
  16. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    He contradicts himself there - insisting that you have to compare an f2.8 m43 lens with an f5.6 FF lens because you get so much more performance on FF, then saying that FF doesn’t get you more performance :hmm: Also some of those assertions about the camera market are a bit dubious - are people _really_ abandoning cameras in favour of phones _more_ than they used to a few years ago?

    Tbh though, all this might be an interesting theoretical discussion but how much difference does it make? It’s quite possible that there will be no new m43 cameras in five years’ time (all the hype is more likely to kill it off than actual performance - sensor size is the new megapixel count) but do I care as long as I can still get pictures out of mine? Or maybe I sell it for whatever I can get and buy something else, and sure I’d get more if I sold now, but then I have old 2018 kit which needs replacing in the future too.

    The hype wars are distracting. Does it do what I need it to? As long as it does I’m fine. The only “upgrades” I’m thinking of right now are based on UI and general handling because I find mirrorless digital cameras generally have shitty UIs (can you just move the ducking DISP button please Panasonic oh actually you seem to have kept it there over many years).
     
    editor likes this.
  17. The point, I think, is if you’re investing in glass for mft at this point in time which will hold its value if the system continues to be developed or drastically reduced in value if not with the added bonus of having to sell off that glass and start again in a completely different system when you want to upgrade because there’s nothing to upgrade to.
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  18. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Not everyone wants or needs to upgrade and there's no shortage of new glass coming through for the MFT format and I can't see any evidence of manufacturers abandoning MFT.

    Here's a good opinion piece comparing size/weight:

    The quality from the Olympus gear is excellent:

    [​IMG]




    Ghost of the Sun: A pre-eclipse photo essay with the Olympus E-M1 II + 12-100mm f/4 Pro
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  19. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    Yeah but the old logic of "invest in glass" has become increasingly obsolete, given how keen manufacturers are these days on creating whole new mounts (and selling you all the lenses again). You can often use adaptors but they're second-best. I have loads of old Sony A-mount lenses (actually Minolta) which technically can be used on A mirrorless, but that would only be a stop-gap before being able to buy new lenses which fit properly. The days of cameras supporting the same lenses across decades are gone now - plus improvements in performance in bodies are getting slower and more niche anyway, so the benefit of having good glass across even an active system are reduced.

    If I had to start all over again I might not go for m43 but otoh, if people are going to sell off their kit cheaply, maybe it's actually a good use of money.
     
  20. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    It isn't just MFT camera owners that are facing change. I bought a FF Nikon dslr last Christmas and see Nikon sees its future with the Z mount FF Mirrorless.

    My F mount AF lenses will not AF on the Z mount and I doubt I will see any new dslrs from Nikon now. Nor more F mount lenses.

    With my attitude, I don't see myself affording a Z mount body anytime soon, there will be used D810 and or D850 available in the coming years which I might be able to afford, and it may be that used F mount lenses may reduce in cost. So I may just stick with dslrs.
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  21. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    I really like Nikolas Moldenhauer, and I've picked up one or two tips from him along the way.
    His latest project is rather whimsical, but a little fun, and obliquely relevant to this thread.

    He's thinking BIG!!!

     
  22. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Here's some good videos:



     
    alsoknownas and weltweit like this.
  23. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Interesting video, and good news for MFT users. Only one question, surely both the FF and MFT images would have to have been up rezzed to make 1m prints and I wonder what software the printer used to do that?
     
  24. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Good video (only watched the first one so far). Will hopefully be shortly showing my commitment to the cause (comrades) by shelling out for a MFT camera myself.

    The issue he mentions about f/2.8 zooms does bother me though (his photoshop fix wouldn't work for video!). I imagine I'll get a larger sensor body for use when a standard zoom is required (events, doc, workshops, etc.). Possibly the full frame Panasonic, or possibly the Fuji X-T3 (APS-C) or something like that.
     
  25. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    I really fucking hate videos. Can anyone summarise them?
     
  26. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    First one:
    Bloke still likes MFT for all the reasons that attracted him to the format 8yrs ago (size, weight, essentially), same as what more or less everyone on the thread has been saying. Makes lame The Who joke at end.
     
  27. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    The second video. Photographer takes various shots with an Oly MFT and a Canon FF. Gets them printed at 1m length on the longest side then asks the printer if they can tell which camera took each image.
     

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