The format wars - Full Frame vs MFT vs APS-C etc.

Discussion in 'photography, graphics & art' started by alsoknownas, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    On a compact it doesn't really make any difference, it's all automated anyway. I actually shoot more with the GF2 than with the GX8; it feels like a more honest experience, it's not got any pseudo-rangefinder styling, it's a Super Saiyan phone, purely digital.
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  2. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    No, it's more about the lenses holding their use and value. I'm up for developing a collection of MFT lenses alongside some larger format glass. But I don't want to start spending what will gradually amount to thousands of pounds on a collection unless there are going to be exciting and up-to-date cameras to use them on for years to come.
     
    weltweit likes this.
  3. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Fair do's. I'm all manual focus, and like a good manual throw on the lens. Autofocus is getting better and better for video, but on the whole it's really not there yet (and in some respects may never be).
     
  4. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    Aha, yes I can see lenses are an issue. They are for me also.

    When I had a DX camera I bought only Nikon F mount FX lenses which was fine when I bought a FF F mount camera, but now Nikon is moving mirrorless my older AF-D lenses will not AF on their Z cameras.

    However, I expect my next camera will not be a Z and so I hope in the coming years to be able to pick up some choice F mount screw focus lenses at large discounts.

    It could be the same for you if MFT gets slightly less popular, the value of used lenses could come down and you could find bargains, assuming there are bodies as you said.
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  5. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    I much prefer manual focus but I can't do it on EVF. It just doesn't feel right; I need optical feedback. Maybe there's a gene somewhere like how some people overtaste coriander.

    OTOH I can manually focus moving things at ~f2.8 full frame so swings and roundabouts.
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  6. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Oooh, overtaste coriander you say? Haven't heard that before. Could explain why I went off Hoegaarden! :D
     
  7. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Is it the lag?
     
  8. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    The one on my Sony is pretty much lag free and it's miles better than an optical one in the dark.
     
  9. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    I don't really experience any significant lag on any EVF I have either (monitor is a different story though - around a quarter of a second or so lag). Just trying to figure out why focussing would be a problem on an EVF.

    Having said that, the EVF on my GH4 is great for critical focus, whereas I'm struggling to get to grips with the EVF on my fairly new GX80 - so maybe it's a question of quality?
     
  10. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    It’s just clearly not the same as what I see with my eyes. I can use it, I just find it alienating.
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  11. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    I'm actually considering (at some point) purchasing a dedicated EVF that I can carry from camera to camera. Primarily for cinema cameras that either don't have one ( :eek: ), or have a fairly mediocre one.
     
  12. weltweit

    weltweit Well-Known Member

    With my old Fuji EVF I quite liked that what I was seeing was what the image would turn out like!
     
  13. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

  14. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    The thing with lenses is that if you buy a good quality used one (and keep it in good nick) it doesn’t really loose value unless a newer improved model comes out (or the system becomes obsolete).
     
    alsoknownas likes this.
  15. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    It has a manual clutch, which means it doesn't suffer from reliance on the focus-by-wire system. It's a classic example of how the format can produce smaller lenses for the focal length (although it is quite big - especially with the lens hood on!). It's apparently a fantastic lens. It's on my list of possibles! :thumbs:
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  16. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    It ends up looking quite big:

    [​IMG] :D
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  17. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Blimey. I do need a good telephoto/zoom one though. Some stuff is best done surreptitiously and I only have the 25mm Voigt so far.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  18. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Yeah, I'm not quite sure 'suruptitious' is the first word that comes to mind with that particular lens :D.
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  19. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    From a distance ;) but yeah - good point :D

    Back on topic - what would the FF equivalent look like?
     
  20. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Funny enough, with all we've been saying on this thread, if you look at the most likely comparison - the Canon 75 - 300mm, there isn't any obvious size or weight advantage - in fact, quite the opposite!

    lenscompare.jpg :eek:

    But there are a number of factors to consider here:

    1) The 75-300 is quite an untypically small lens for it's range:

    canonlens.jpg

    2) The Oly has internal zoom, whereas the Canon becomes a LOT bigger fully zoomed:

    lensextended.jpg

    3) (and most importantly I reckon) - Aperture plays a massive part in lens build size, and I think the constant f/2.8 on the Oly is what makes it so hefty. In comparison the Canon lens is variable f/4 - 5.6, which isn't much cop for MFT in any case really.
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  21. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    Here's what a 120 - 300 f/2.8 (Sigma) lens looks like:

    [​IMG]
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  22. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Yeah, that’s not very surreptitious.
     
  23. FridgeMagnet

    FridgeMagnet Administrator

    LUMIX 45-150 f4-5.6

    CAE31632-88F2-41E5-93E7-7192579D8C77.jpeg
     
    alsoknownas and Magnus McGinty like this.
  24. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    This is a really daft comparison. It's the size of the maximum aperture that decides how big a zoom lens will be so you need to compare like with like!

    And f/4 - 5.6 is pretty shit for any sensor if you're trying to capture low light sports.
     
  25. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    If read my post properly you'd see I'd made both points myself. I wonder which full frame lens you'd offer up for comparison?
     
  26. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    85mm f1.8
    Here's a good start:

    [​IMG]

    1.jpg

    Make up your own comparisons here:
    Compact Camera Meter
     
  27. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Gordon Bennett!
    70mm-200m f2.8 compared

    1.jpg
     
    weltweit likes this.
  28. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    So, just to be clear - in response to Magnus McGinty asking about the 40 -150mm, you're offering up a 85mm and a bunch of other completely incomparable focal lengths? Now that's what I call *daft* :D.
    I think you need to keep up with threads better before posting.
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  29. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    Has said he was looking for a "good telephoto/zoom".

    I've just posted up an example of a very good one (70mm-200mm), so I don't really know what you're getting so shirty about. :confused:
     
  30. alsoknownas

    alsoknownas some bloke

    No mate - he specifically asked what the FF equivalent of the 40 - 150mm would look like.
    So I served up a comparison with, so far as I can see, one of the only FF lenses that covers a similar focal length range. A post hardly deserving of the label 'daft' I would have thought :hmm:.
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.

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