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The Football Lads Alliance

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by editor, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. framed

    framed Leave it!

    I wrote the introduction to the article and I don't give a fuck what you whining cunts think.

    Toodlepip!
     
  2. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    You're a fucking idiot then
     
  3. editor

    editor Taffus Maximus

    So you're not bothered whether what you write is truthful or not?

    'Nuff said. :facepalm:
     
  4. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    I guess this bit has been cleared up at least. :hmm:
     
    emanymton and editor like this.
  5. chilango

    chilango By the many, not the few.

    [
    I can't speak for anyone else, but my reading of post #9 was that it was posted as an example of a shit analysis. Given who wrote that analysis and their past actions (the Comrade Delta stuff) I'm not surprised to see nobody here spending time "dissecting" it. He has no defenders here afaik.

    So to use the lack of discussion around that quote as implied agreement with it is - imo - unfair.

    But, that said, I don't want to get sucked into some huge row about this.

    I'll repeat, I thought LiamO's post added something useful. My thoughts on this, and just as importantly on what it doesn't address, are upthread.

    It is a shame that the unnecessary/inaccurate digs added to it are distracting from this.
     
    editor and The39thStep like this.
  6. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    He knows - that's just the only post that comes up when you search this thread for 'Islamophobic' (or was until the last couple of days).
     
  7. bimble

    bimble uber-hippy twonk peanut

    You are funny.
     
  8. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    Pretty funny that within 24 hours of Liam bigging up framed in a post here, framed approvingly quotes Liam (anonymously) on the Red Action facebook account, which in turn gets used as if it's some kind of killer blow by Liam back here. Defo not some kind of tough lads circle-jerk going on there.
     
    editor likes this.
  9. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    If only they were
     
  10. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Sorry for the delay but had visitors , then lots of work to catch up on.

    I can think of two occasions to do with 'terrorist' related discusions when I have inadvertently choked on a cold beer . The first was when a clairvoyant told my missus that she was sensing that I was secretly putting money into something which could have a big impact and my wife said 'yes he puts a lot of money in ISIS' when she meant ISAs and the other one was your question
    How anyone, with or without children, who watched the Manchester bombing unfold and saw the profile of the child victims could ask such a question baffles me, it really does.

    This is from IPSOS last month:
    [​IMG]

    Three quarters surveyed thought that terrorist attacks in the UK were likely to happen so yes there is evidence that people are worried about terrorism. Maybe not in Newbieland or even in the wider world of Urban75 but out in the real world people are worried. Terrorism and the governments response to it was a key issue in the UK elections ,French elections, US elections and is already emerging as an issue in the forthcoming German elections.There are countless other surveys not just in the UK but globally which paint a similar picture about citizens concerns about terrorism. Its not just Europe, Australia, Singapore and Thailand were ranked in the top five countries out of 17 in a survey last year where terrorism was seen as the biggest issue.

    its been a growing issue:
    [​IMG]

    So when you said
    this is why .

    The Keep calm and carry on attitude is to be admired for many its what they can do to show that the terrorists aren't winning .For most though its bcause they have very little choice but to go about there everyday busines as best they can. However despite one survey after the Manchester bombing showing 70% did not feel that their personal security had been changed by the event the next day after the bombing in Manchester both the Arndale Center and the Trafford Centre had high levels of staff absence low levels of shoppers. There has been a trend that holiday makers avoid Tunsia, Egypt and Turkey because of their worries about terrorism. In Belgium, France and Germany ( the former two particularly) tourism fell due to terrorist attacks impacting on unemployment. So there are ways in which when people have a choice they change their behaviour because of fears of terrorism.

    Fear of terrorism also changes peoples behaviour in more negative ways. Childline for example reported last year that they had had over 600 referrals from children worried to the point about terrorism that they required counselling. As we know it is capable of increasing hatred towards minorities, it creates fears especially when people associated that minority with the attacks. It has the potential to cause people to retreat to 'family groups' and to see what they percieve as outsiders to be a threat. This was what Le Pen’s narrative of a civilizational conflict along demographic lines was all about which whether we like it or not achieved some resonance. Scratch the surface and the issue of people carrying on as normal becomes a little more complicated.

    I am not sure where you got the idea from that I had claimed that the public were demanding a response from the left or the right btw. You repeated this several times .It may have been a bit of mischeivous behaviour in your part, poor reading skills or your imagination running away with you. As to the question whether peoples anxieties and fears can be articulated by the right or left ( or any other political grouping) the answer is yes, of course they can.

    I'll pause here but I do want to come back to your question what the left and antifascists could be doing. , I did post something on another thread but it might be worth me reposting that on here and try to expand on it?
     
  11. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    welcome back, thanks for a detailed reply, I'm afraid it's my turn to stall because I'm busy, I'll try to respond later. But please give over with this 'Newbieland' sneer. Like I said, I live very near the site of two of 3 recent Islamist attacks, I'm as close (or closer if you're still abroad) to those likely to feel personally threatened sufficiently to change their behaviour, and I've seen and heard none of that since the initial shock wore off. I'll contrast again that (lack of) reaction to the very different personal expressions of those who live or work in blocks with cladding. I'll follow up later I hope.
     
  12. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    The39thStep
    OK, I don't think conducting debate via opinion poll is particularly useful, but in looking for your source I found this: upload_2017-7-11_19-6-55.png

    If I read that right shortly after 3 terrorist attacks the whole foreign policy/defence and terrorism category went from being mentioned by 10% of people to 29%, and from being outside the top 10 issues of concern, while everything else was pretty static. I don't know how that squares with the polls you found. :confused:

    Since you mentioned urban I suppose I should also point this poll out, running since Jan 2015. FTR I haven't voted
    upload_2017-7-11_19-19-35.png


    Turning to the rest of what you said, I think it's fairly inevitable that in the immediate aftermath of an atrocity people are a bit circumspect: after all, Jean Charles de Menezes was shot just a few days after the London bombings in 2005. I really don't think people just keep calm and carry on because they have to: I was in Borough Market a couple of weeks ago, 'twas full of tourists and Londoners shopping, eating, drinking, and last week in Parliament Sq, right next to Westminster Bridge at an anti-austerity demo with (so McDonnell claimed) 100,000 people present (actually maybe 10-20k but you know what politicians are like). I haven't been to Finsbury Park or Manchester, but am I really supposed to believe attitudes there are so different?

    It's certainly very sad that there are 600 children traumatised by the Manchester bomb. Many I guess were personally affected, being caught up in it or having classmates, friends etc who were. I hope their counselling helps them. I'm not going to draw much in the way of general conclusions though.

    As for the election, 2 attacks during the campaign meant terrorism inevitably became an election issue, but it wasn't one prior to the Manchester bomb, when we were all discussing the proposed dementia tax.

    So yes, no doubt everything you say is true, but taken in the round I'm not persuaded that it adds up to people- adults- being truly worried.

    I don't think I said you claimed that. I did, however, say that I don't think there is any such demand, in the context of this post on the first page of this thread, which implies you think this is, or might become, a left/right contested issue

    So having said all that I still don't know what it it you think the left is capable of doing to combat terrorism, whether Jihadi or far right, like Finsbury Park, Jo Cox or (going back a bit) the Brixton and Soho bombs. Or what the left can offer to the public by mobilising around this issue.
     
  13. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    Dear me.
    I am genuinely glad that everything is tickety boo in Newbieland and glad you found a poll that said something different .However have another gander at the trend over years graph.I suspect the military defeat of ISIS ( don't know if you are for or against this) will not be the end of bombs, knife attacks or vans plowing people down.Fear of terrorist attacks will undoubtedly go up and down depending on the gap between attacks but the trajectory of concern is quite clear unfortunately.


    Could you kindly re read the last bit of my previous post as that would answer the bit of your last post.Thanks .
     
  14. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    well ok, if politics via opinion poll is the way forward I'll quote the sting in the tail from that page
    sfaics all it means is that people noticed the rise of ISIS terrorism but that they're not unduly worried about it.

    this bit? "I'll pause here but I do want to come back to your question what the left and antifascists could be doing. , I did post something on another thread but it might be worth me reposting that on here and try to expand on it?". Please do expand.


    ps I really would prefer it if you could conduct a discussion without snide personal slurs:,"Newbieland "......"the military defeat of ISIS ( don't know if you are for or against this)" but you carry on if that's the way you want to behave.
     
  15. The39thStep

    The39thStep Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour?

    You are confusing the actuality of an event with being worried about it. People worry about flying but the actuality of crashing is very low . The worry is there otherwise people wouldn't rate it so high in opinion polls. Look at some data about the French and Belgium tourist economies or bookings to North Africa or Egypt.
    Anyway we need to create a space where other posters contribute otherwise it's just boring with you and me.
     
    Pickman's model likes this.
  16. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    No, I'm simply not overplaying peoples fears for political reasons, which is something I mostly expect from the Daily Mail and further right. You have nothing to support your premise except dubious interpretations of opinion polls. Egypt, Tunisia, sure I can read the FCO Advisories, but that has little or no relevance to day to day life here.

    I've been asking since page 1 what you had in mind when you called for a left alternative response to what you claim is a really pressing worry. Why don't you just tell me?

    cos everybody else is being prevented from posting :rolleyes:
     
  17. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    I don't even see why you're making it so relevant, newbie, it's not as if you canvass opinions on whether the general populace are worried or not with regards to opposition of the far right. So why is the lack of worry not relevant in that context but relevant in this one?
     
  18. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    it's a newbie fact, magnus
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  19. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Why isn't this a relevant question in the context of this thread? :confused:

    Considering posts like these...

     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  20. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    tbh I wish I'd just asked about the left alternative approach to Jihadi terrorists and never bothered querying whether or not people are 'worried'. That's the political question I'm interested in getting to the bottom of, and have asked lots of times, and which no-one has even attempted. :(

    I think the claim the public are worried is overstated. But that's secondary, queried only because it was cited as the reason why this left alternative is required. We are where we are because opinion polls is what The39thStep chose to write about as a response to only the secondary question. I'd prefer to be trying to understand what a left response to acts of terrorism might consist of.
     
  21. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    steps made some suggestions on another thread, gimme a minute...
     
  22. killer b

    killer b Ennui Rollins

    here:

     
  23. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    What is it there that is specifically or uniquely left wing, based on class or material conditions?

    So as well as the government, security services, various Muslim activist groups and the far right, the left should also attempt to differentiate between good Muslims and bad Muslims in ways which can and will be portrayed as curtailing freedom of speech, as racial/religious profiling and as harming cohesion. All of these propositions are effectively lining up behind either the Prevent Strategy and/or positions taken by the EDL, though with a very slightly different emphasis.

    As for starting dialogues, why would the left choose this topic when there are so many others available. Cuts, NHS or gig economy are much more natural dialogues, and have the advantage that they're not rooted in concepts and understandings from another language and another century.
     
  24. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    It's about having a little bit of consistency and opposing fascism regardless of what mask it wears. It's fuck all to do with "good muslims and bad muslims" (whatever that's meant to mean)
     
  25. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Consistency, right, gotcha.

    Now how do you propose that is done given would-be jihadist/suicide bombers are not known to organise rallies, march etc advertising the fact or exposing their plans?
     
  26. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    So despite the general thrust being of people being reluctant to organise against them, you're now presenting your argument as having intel stating they don't do any of the above? :D
     
  27. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam 'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'

    Islamists do hold rallies/protests/book stalls
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  28. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    One of them had been on the telly! "Not known" :D
     
  29. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    I don't see them around and about London for example? I am not claiming intel ffs I've asked you what you think should/can be done.
     
  30. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Do you see them where you are?
    What do you think the left should be doing when this happens?
     

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