Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

The First World War

WW 2 was more interesting because it covered more terrain, ( Norway, North African & Pacific theaters ), & the bad guys came closer to winning. Plus there was no Battle of Britain. The V-2 & the subsequent space race angle, ( Operation Paperclip ), as well.
 
WW 2 was more interesting because it covered more terrain, ( Norway, North African & Pacific theaters ), & the bad guys came closer to winning. Plus there was no Battle of Britain. The V-2 & the subsequent space race angle, ( Operation Paperclip ), as well.
It's always a good idea to read your posts before sending them. That way you get to know if they make any sense or not..
 
I dunno, I think that the First World War is more interesting than WWII, simply because it hasn't been done to death in umpteen billion different forms of media over several decades.
 
I thought they meant there was no Battle of Britain in WW1. Certainly if the posters main interest is in aerial warfare then this is far more diverse and developed in WW2.

As for the bad guys winning being closer to winning in WW2, my knowledge of WW1 is sketchy but I am sure I have read that had Paris fallen in 1914 or in the 1918 spring offensive then France would have sued for peace?
 
WW 2 was more interesting because it covered more terrain, ( Norway, North African & Pacific theaters ), & the bad guys came closer to winning. Plus there was no Battle of Britain. The V-2 & the subsequent space race angle, ( Operation Paperclip ), as well.
WW1 had an African and Asian theatre. It also employed new technologies: tanks, planes, gas, flamethrowers.
 
Well, the British Empire emerged victorious if you want bad guys winning.
Always hear Barbara Tuchman's book recommended but not read it, is it good then?
 
Well, the British Empire emerged victorious if you want bad guys winning.
Not that it did them much good. WW1 help bring about the Russian Revolution, the Easter Rising, the Indian Non-cooperation movement and May Fourth Movement, to name a few.

Always hear Barbara Tuchman's book recommended but not read it, is it good then?
Which one? She has a two-part series on the outbreak of war: The Guns of August and the Proud Tower.
 
Yes, um, thought that would've been simple, there was no Battle of Britain in WW 1, no error. Yes WW 1 had a minor African theater, nut not a North African Theater as WW 2 did.
 
I still argue that the war being discussed in this thread was, at least, the Third World War.
 
WW1 and WW2 related; I read about the Judenzählung. It turns out in 1916, the German high command were preoccupied with slandering Jews for their lack of patriotism and commitment to the war effort. They instigated a census of Jewish recruits to show they were underrepresented in the war effort; when, in fact, the results of the census showed exactly the opposite—Jews were proportionally over-represented.
 
I’ve recently been reading a little & watching a few documentaries on WW1 trench warfare, in particular about the battle of the Somme.

Did Rawlinson or any other senior generals subsequently apologise (e.g. in their memoirs) about how catastrophically bad their decisions had been for the ‘poor bloody infantry’ of the British army?

e.g. First day of the Somme: attacking in daylight; walking not running; troops bogged down with up to 60lb of kit; enemy wire not having been destroyed in the previous seven days’ artillery barrage (this could have been ascertained - and in at least one case I read about - was ascertained by a forward scouting party going towards enemy lines and who found the wire to be intact).

Also, what was the basis of the generals’ assumption that the Germans would be obliterated by the artillery barrage? Did they really have no knowledge of the well-constructed and deep bunkers built into the German trench system, where they were able to shelter until it was time to haul out their machine guns?

Heads should’ve rolled, but I bet they didn’t 😡

Please tell me that British tactics were modified in some way after the disaster of 1st July… as I understand the battle of the Somme lasted until November or later…
 
WW1 trench warfare

Iv read a bit about this, a few years ago though.

What i remember stood out was the huge divide, the class divide. In all areas of life of course but so noticable in army life as it ate up all without discrimination, the army records show how much healthier the upper class physically were. Siegfried Sassoon, very posh, highly educated, highly motivated to soldiering. Eventually penned a pacifist letter that was widely published, critical of politics and leadership, didn't get shot for it. Less articulate people did get shot for expressing similar sentiment in less eloquent and acceptable ways.

Rawlinson, had he lived longer, would have been rewarded further I recon
 
I’ve recently been reading a little & watching a few documentaries on WW1 trench warfare, in particular about the battle of the Somme.

Did Rawlinson or any other senior generals subsequently apologise (e.g. in their memoirs) about how catastrophically bad their decisions had been for the ‘poor bloody infantry’ of the British army?

e.g. First day of the Somme: attacking in daylight; walking not running; troops bogged down with up to 60lb of kit; enemy wire not having been destroyed in the previous seven days’ artillery barrage (this could have been ascertained - and in at least one case I read about - was ascertained by a forward scouting party going towards enemy lines and who found the wire to be intact).

Also, what was the basis of the generals’ assumption that the Germans would be obliterated by the artillery barrage? Did they really have no knowledge of the well-constructed and deep bunkers built into the German trench system, where they were able to shelter until it was time to haul out their machine guns?

Heads should’ve rolled, but I bet they didn’t 😡

Please tell me that British tactics were modified in some way after the disaster of 1st July… as I understand the battle of the Somme lasted until November or later…
you might find this British Intelligence in the Great War - Historic UK an interesting read
 
I’ve recently been reading a little & watching a few documentaries on WW1 trench warfare, in particular about the battle of the Somme.

Did Rawlinson or any other senior generals subsequently apologise (e.g. in their memoirs) about how catastrophically bad their decisions had been for the ‘poor bloody infantry’ of the British army?

e.g. First day of the Somme: attacking in daylight; walking not running; troops bogged down with up to 60lb of kit; enemy wire not having been destroyed in the previous seven days’ artillery barrage (this could have been ascertained - and in at least one case I read about - was ascertained by a forward scouting party going towards enemy lines and who found the wire to be intact).

Also, what was the basis of the generals’ assumption that the Germans would be obliterated by the artillery barrage? Did they really have no knowledge of the well-constructed and deep bunkers built into the German trench system, where they were able to shelter until it was time to haul out their machine guns?

Heads should’ve rolled, but I bet they didn’t 😡

Please tell me that British tactics were modified in some way after the disaster of 1st July… as I understand the battle of the Somme lasted until November or later…
They did eventually get their act together hence the 100 day offensive that finished the Germans off the British army of 1918 was probably the best trained and most successful combined arms force we created pity. Most of the lessons were put back in the box and ignored.
 
I’ve recently been reading a little & watching a few documentaries on WW1 trench warfare, in particular about the battle of the Somme.

Did Rawlinson or any other senior generals subsequently apologise (e.g. in their memoirs) about how catastrophically bad their decisions had been for the ‘poor bloody infantry’ of the British army?

e.g. First day of the Somme: attacking in daylight; walking not running; troops bogged down with up to 60lb of kit; enemy wire not having been destroyed in the previous seven days’ artillery barrage (this could have been ascertained - and in at least one case I read about - was ascertained by a forward scouting party going towards enemy lines and who found the wire to be intact).

Also, what was the basis of the generals’ assumption that the Germans would be obliterated by the artillery barrage? Did they really have no knowledge of the well-constructed and deep bunkers built into the German trench system, where they were able to shelter until it was time to haul out their machine guns?

Heads should’ve rolled, but I bet they didn’t 😡

Please tell me that British tactics were modified in some way after the disaster of 1st July… as I understand the battle of the Somme lasted until November or later…

You want to read Gary Sheffield 'Forgotten Victory' for a different view of the Generals. I can't say I know much about the FWW but I know there's been some challenge to the lions led by donkeys argument..
 
They did eventually get their act together hence the 100 day offensive that finished the Germans off the British army of 1918 was probably the best trained and most successful combined arms force we created pity. Most of the lessons were put back in the box and ignored.
How much of the Allied victory was due to the Americans entering the war? The German military commanders must’ve been delighted when the Russian Revolution freed up tens of thousands of their troops on the Eastern front, yet they still lost. I do vaguely recall reading an argument that they overstretched themselves in an attempt to march on Paris; in advancing too far too fast in the West they’d cut themselves off from their own supply lines - has anyone come across this theory?
 
More on Foch and the development of operational art in 1918:

https://encyclopedia.1914-1918-online.net/article/warfare_1914-1918

ETA and here we have the counter to the 'lions led by donkeys':

"It took three cycles of warfare, three campaigning seasons in pre-modern parlance, to complete this transformation. Basic tactical concepts were tested in 1915. In 1916, “scientific” operational methods were deployed. In 1917 these were inculcated into armies trained and equipped to fight modern “deep” battles.[4] In 1918 armies and their commanders applied these methods to fight the war to a decision. Contrary to much popular and some historians’ perception, those who held high military commands were on the whole practical, professional soldiers who grappled with and solved the problems presented by a stalemated, industrial battlefield. The costly consequences of the war were largely a product of the nature of large-scale attrition warfare, rather than a result of failure of leadership or military imagination."
 
Last edited:
The Germans would never have sued for peace if they'd had any inkling of the Carthaginian terms that would be imposed on them.
 
Back
Top Bottom