The extra-parliamentary left & anti-Semitism
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
Shechemite
Justice for Harvey
One of the issues that pops up in disability/anti-austerity movements is the use of Nazi imagery/invoking the Holocaust to ‘ironically denounce Tory austerity’.
This is problematic in and of itself - it’s crass, it (unsurprisingly) is alienating to people outside of those activist circles, it has an underlying crap analysis of fascism (ie that fascism is either indistinguishable from m neo-liberal austerity, or that neoliberalism is next phase of an conspiracy to wipe out disabled people/‘endgame eugenics’), and of the Holocaust (eg often getting themselves confused on Aktion T4 and the Black Triangle).
It also acts to normalise fascism and fascist behaviour, and allows for full-on antisemites to get a free pass for their antisemitism.
On the last point, it’s worth pointing out that those who use nazi imagery to ‘ironically denounce’ austerity, have a habit of turning out to not like Jews very much - eg Tony Gosling, Sioux Blair-Jordan and Roy Bard)
This is problematic in and of itself - it’s crass, it (unsurprisingly) is alienating to people outside of those activist circles, it has an underlying crap analysis of fascism (ie that fascism is either indistinguishable from m neo-liberal austerity, or that neoliberalism is next phase of an conspiracy to wipe out disabled people/‘endgame eugenics’), and of the Holocaust (eg often getting themselves confused on Aktion T4 and the Black Triangle).
It also acts to normalise fascism and fascist behaviour, and allows for full-on antisemites to get a free pass for their antisemitism.
On the last point, it’s worth pointing out that those who use nazi imagery to ‘ironically denounce’ austerity, have a habit of turning out to not like Jews very much - eg Tony Gosling, Sioux Blair-Jordan and Roy Bard)
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8ball
As seen on TikTok
So would it be a middle-aged thing in general (if talking about "mainstream" rather than "fruitloop" anti-semitism)? There is plenty of anti-semitism among Tories too.
Something that cuts across age rather than parliamentary politics?
8ball
As seen on TikTok
Where can I hire his graphic designer?
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
By the feet from a petrol station gantry.
8ball
As seen on TikTok
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
I fear that because they suddenly appeared from nowhere they will lack the wariness that comes only from long, bitter experience. This may make them vulnerable to loons and also to infiltration by cops.
I'm sure there are some old hands in there, in fact I know a few of them myself, but they run the risk of being drowned out or swept along by the general ethos of 'we can solve everything in a fortnight without bothering to do any political or ogranisational work at all'.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
He's removed all record of this from his own online presence and denies all knowledge of it. Luckily it's been archived for the ages by some public-spirited soul.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Big overlap with the FOTLers as well. And they're almost exclusively middle aged.
8ball
As seen on TikTok
I'm hoping they may have some resistance to loons, but I think you're right with regard to infiltration by cops.
They don't even view cops as their enemy yet.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Talking to 'liaison officers' is just open-air snitching. From what I've heard it's ubiquitous at ER events.
Cid
Proper break this time
So is urban to be fair.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Wow. I had no idea the anti fracking crowd was an anti-Vax / conspiracy theory hotbed. Makes sense though, there's often an overlap between people who an inherent mistrust of science and technology (I'm not defending fracking BTW) and people who believe in, e.g. Homeopathy.
LDC
Normie ultra left and proud
I have no contact with any of the anti-fracking stuff, but know he's about in it - and more than tolerated, some think he's great.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
It's got so bad that I'm no longer 100% convinced that fracking is actually a bad thing.
Pickman's model
sunset spires and twilight woods
i am not persuaded that anti-fracking is in and of itself a left cause.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
How does that work? 'I, DavE SmITH, demand that the government I don't recognise steps in and uses the law that I don't believe can be applied, to stop this thing I don't like'?
Unless they think fracking is mentioned in the Magna Carta (which I wouldn't put past them tbf).
LDC
Normie ultra left and proud
No, and I guess this is part of the problem isn't it? A politics that's been broken into issues and campaigns rather than having a more solid analysis at heart driving it.
souljacker
innit
Yeah, it's a green thing surely. And they have been tied to conspiraloonery since the days of Icke being their leader/spokesman.
Shechemite
Justice for Harvey
There’s an anti-austerity protest being organised by a DFLA member. There’s all manner of causes that the Right and the Left seek to parasitise
chilango
Ha! Ha! Armageddon
...and the last few posts really highlight the problems we have got.
Fragmented and atomised as movements all that's left is tiny, geographically limited groups and a a disparate range of issue based causes to get involved in.
But these are likely to also include CTers, anti-semites and red-browners. Possibly in greater numbers than ourselves and certainly louder.
Fracking should be a left cause, in the same way that bypasses and open-cast mining were, not because of some inherent anti-science mysticism but becase we make them so. In the 90s the likes of Aufheben, Subversion and Do or Die helped spread this perspective (to a degree) giving a basis for a class based voice within those struggles that was coherent and useful. The parasites couldn't get much of a foothold in that stuff.
Now they have, and "we" are largely absent.
Its not just environmental causes. Round my way its the Greens (and assorted xtian and m/c hangers on) who are running community campaigns against the Labour Party council.
There is a vacuum and on the hand its the populist right filling it and the other CTers and red-brown toxicity.
It'll get worse too.
When Corbyn and Momentum inevitably collapse then the rats will come scurrying back looking fo a new ship to board.
Fragmented and atomised as movements all that's left is tiny, geographically limited groups and a a disparate range of issue based causes to get involved in.
But these are likely to also include CTers, anti-semites and red-browners. Possibly in greater numbers than ourselves and certainly louder.
Fracking should be a left cause, in the same way that bypasses and open-cast mining were, not because of some inherent anti-science mysticism but becase we make them so. In the 90s the likes of Aufheben, Subversion and Do or Die helped spread this perspective (to a degree) giving a basis for a class based voice within those struggles that was coherent and useful. The parasites couldn't get much of a foothold in that stuff.
Now they have, and "we" are largely absent.
Its not just environmental causes. Round my way its the Greens (and assorted xtian and m/c hangers on) who are running community campaigns against the Labour Party council.
There is a vacuum and on the hand its the populist right filling it and the other CTers and red-brown toxicity.
It'll get worse too.
When Corbyn and Momentum inevitably collapse then the rats will come scurrying back looking fo a new ship to board.
Shechemite
Justice for Harvey
And people who talk about ‘it’s mainly on the internet/social media’ ignore how big a part social media plays in people’s lives now, how the use of social media is used by those who are socially isolated (for reasons of disability/mental health/poverty), how social media exists for such people as a replacement for the social support/centres that have been torn away by austerity, and that it’s precisely those people (the most ‘vulnerable’ to use that awful term) that are most at risk to being taken in by conspiracy theorists/cults/fascists etc).
And even if people are going to dismiss the reach of the of some of the conspiraloons, it’s pretty bold to deny the influence of Skwarkbox/The Canary etc
And even if people are going to dismiss the reach of the of some of the conspiraloons, it’s pretty bold to deny the influence of Skwarkbox/The Canary etc
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
Indeed not. There's a huge NIMBY factor alongside the FOTLery and conspiralunacy.
8ball
As seen on TikTok
Depends what is said, but its a concern.
SpackleFrog
Smash showy bell-bottom pants and sporty haircuts
This has been really apparent with the trees issue in Sheffield (for those who don't know a private company called Amey were awarded a 30 year road maintenance contract and immediately decided to reduce costs by sacking workers and chopping all the trees down. The unions and the Labour left wouldn't touch it cos Corbyn/don't criticise Labour and what was a really important issue was essentially given to the Greens and a load of middle class NIMBY types. Within that, there's some total lunacy obviously. But they've had some of the biggest demos in Sheffield in last couple of years.
Worth remembering too that although it might be mainly middle aged types, these school strikes against climate change could potentially bring a whole generation of kids into contact with some right weirdo's.
Cid
Proper break this time
That depends where you locate the left on social media. I'm sure the twitter feeds of momentum, Novara etc are full of that shit... But that is in part because that type of social media allows those voices to be amplified. Left youtube is going in a far more positive direction imo, and I suspect reaching a larger audience.
Lurdan
old wave
Ian R. Crane was also supporting convicted medical scammer David Noakes
David Noakes: UKIP hopeful turned 'cancer cure' seller - BBC News
Scarcely surprising. Ticks all the boxes of populism and petty entrepreneurialism.
The 'fertile ground' in which cunts like this operate isn't anything to do with being middle-aged. It's to do with the condition of being 'middle-class', or more exactly the rise of a strata of slightly better off semi-detached households with only relatively weak ties to one another. The internet has merely multiplied the opportunities for people to compensate for this by linking together in 'elective' communities, 'virtual suburbs' if you will.
Given that as far as I can see what remains of 'the left' is dominated by people who are in the middle strata of society and those who aspire to join them it's scarcely surprising that these kinds of bollocks find a degree of purchase.
hmmm, I'm not entirely sure what 'the topic' is, but I suspect that is probably wandering off it
David Noakes: UKIP hopeful turned 'cancer cure' seller - BBC News
Scarcely surprising. Ticks all the boxes of populism and petty entrepreneurialism.
The 'fertile ground' in which cunts like this operate isn't anything to do with being middle-aged. It's to do with the condition of being 'middle-class', or more exactly the rise of a strata of slightly better off semi-detached households with only relatively weak ties to one another. The internet has merely multiplied the opportunities for people to compensate for this by linking together in 'elective' communities, 'virtual suburbs' if you will.
Given that as far as I can see what remains of 'the left' is dominated by people who are in the middle strata of society and those who aspire to join them it's scarcely surprising that these kinds of bollocks find a degree of purchase.
hmmm, I'm not entirely sure what 'the topic' is, but I suspect that is probably wandering off it
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