The Establishment Vs The People

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by 1%er, Sep 24, 2019.

  1. 1%er

    1%er Well-Known Member

    Its fascinating to watch from a distance this fight in the UK between the democratic vote of the people in a referendum and the establishment failing to agree to "losers consent". The votes had hardly been counted and the winner announced before the fightback to overturn the result started.

    The establishment is happy to give losers consent at an election as they know regardless of who the winner is they will always keep hold of the reins of power. But what now? They lost the referendum but don't accept the result.

    But is the UK really a democracy, less than half of parliament is elected and the people you elect are representatives and once elected are not beholden to the people but their party, they don't swear an oath to the people but to the crown. The Government (if it has a majority) is accountable to no-one.

    Why do you think the establishment don't want a codified constitution, could it be that an unwritten constitution is open to manipulation to ensure the people who hold the real power can keep a firm grip?

    If you believe having a vote every few years to elect a representative to the smallest chamber of parliament means you live in a democracy, maybe you need to think again what democracy means.

    Anyway its all good fun watching from the sidelines all the maneuvering by the establishment to ensure the people don't get what they voted for.
     
    Marty1 likes this.
  2. 8ball

    8ball Can be a bit of a git sometimes

    Ca1pture.JPG
     
  3. Monkeygrinder's Organ

    Monkeygrinder's Organ Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager

    Hot New Take.:thumbs:
     
    Poi E, pogofish, Maggot and 3 others like this.
  4. Raheem

    Raheem Well-Known Member

    It's like they're just ignoring the existing thread on a topic and starting their own.
     
  5. 8ball

    8ball Can be a bit of a git sometimes

    Bloody liberal elites! <shakes fist>
     
  6. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Theres a fairly interesting idea put forward in this book which I havent read but read a review of
    Reckless opportunists
    Elites at the end of the Establishment
    https://www.manchesteruniversitypress.co.uk/9781526127280/
    that there isnt really an Establishment anymore - or more accurately that the Establishment isn't unified any more, and doesn't have the same common sense of purpose of maintaining the status quo that it might have once done. Its not to say that there isnt a ruling class, nor to say that the systems to create and maintain an Establishment have gone, rather that you cant talk about a unified Establishment anymore but rather a "disintegration of the ‘Establishment’ into competing elites unable to combine in imposing traditional ruling-class hegemony.", a set up in which political self-interest takes priority. Cracks in the temple?

    From that review - relevant to the thread
    "However, just as the Bauman-like soup of ‘liquid modernity’, in which ‘all that is solid melts into air’, has dissolved the Establishment into competing elites, amongst the employed population also the loss of communities of labour has disintegrated shared class identities towards massified groups, their remaining commonalities of experience targeted by individualising new media to further loosen traditional political allegiances. "

    Both Establishment and People are increasingly not one thing, is the point. Worth reading the review for more.

    Hard for me to judge how new this is. Was the Establishment really more unified in the 50s when the term was coined? I expect it was, but this might not necessarily be the case.

    For example, how many 'competing elites' within the Establishment are there? and how many were there in the 50s?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  7. Cid

    Cid 嗯嗯

    Such insight.
     
  8. StoneRoad

    StoneRoad heckling from the back!

    When people are sold "a pig in a poke" there are bound to be repercussions when they find out about the lies.
     
    likesfish likes this.
  9. Marty1

    Marty1 Well-Known Member

    The remain establishment in Parliament simply do not reflect the will of the people as is being brazenly played out.

    I think a no deal Brexit will be delivered but only after the electorate holds those whom have subverted Brexit at every stage accountable via a General Election.

    Hopefully then the remain hysteria can slowly fade away into the annals of history.

    Until then, grab your popcorn.
     
    WouldBe likes this.
  10. 8ball

    8ball Can be a bit of a git sometimes

    "The will of the people" :D

    Nice one, Centurion, nice one.
     
    likesfish, fucthest8 and Maggot like this.
  11. trabuquera

    trabuquera Modesty Bag

    "The Establishment" and "the people" are both fictions - straw men, if you like, confected to wave around shouting incoherently at the sky with.
     
  12. tim

    tim EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)

    Marty1 won't be happy till he sees the Triumph of the Will
    [​IMG]

    Fortunately it's the kind of quirky Continental documentary the people who run the Curzon cinema group love. So with a bit of luck he'll see it soon

    The UK's first documentary cinema | DocHouse
     
    Pickman's model and likesfish like this.
  13. 8ball

    8ball Can be a bit of a git sometimes

    It has some good drumming in it.
     
    tim likes this.
  14. Des Kinvig

    Des Kinvig Active Member

    It all depends on the establishment in question.
     
  15. Rob Ray

    Rob Ray Irony is well sad

    The-people.jpg
    Can you guess what the twist is?
     
    Ax^, A380 and likesfish like this.
  16. Louis MacNeice

    Louis MacNeice Autumn Journalist

    They are people, but not (very fortunately) the people; the people are all round mine eating crisps and hummus...I'll let you know what they want in a minute (probably more crisps and hummus).

    Cheers - Louis MacNeice
     
  17. Rob Ray

    Rob Ray Irony is well sad

    Hummus? Hmm very dodgy, are you sure they're not secretly part of the liberal Establishment?
     
    friedaweed likes this.
  18. Ax^

    Ax^ Silly Rabbit

    who control the media that lied to the people if not members of the establishment

    who aim to make money for the results of this


    if recee mogg, boris johnson, arron banks and micheal grove are the voice of the people

    something broken in the system
     
  19. 8ball

    8ball Can be a bit of a git sometimes

    Crisps and hummus?

    How come we were never offered this before?
     
  20. Ax^

    Ax^ Silly Rabbit

    saying that the best and most fustrating thing about this whole process is repeatly having to explain to people on the leave side

    that its not remainers fucking up process but the party directly involved ..

    sadly that is not the line thats being feed to them but TV and most media outlets

    *shrugs*
     
  21. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    Good analysis i think, sounds true
    Brexit is a necessary crisis – it reveals Britain’s true place in the world | David Edgerton

    British capitalist class is itself split, a part of which has globalised in its economic interests, the earlier concensus around national obligations is gone for that significant section, reduced to both sentiment and an appetite for destruction off which it can then vulture feed.

    Establishment suggests stability...for these this is the opposite, though for similar ends (power)
     
    William of Walworth likes this.
  22. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    it's readily available online
     
  23. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    michael gove is ann widdecombe's love child?
     
  24. Marty1

    Marty1 Well-Known Member

    Speaking of Ann Widdecombe, her EU speech was a tour de force.

    <ed: removed>

    ‘Colonies Mr. Verhofstadt’!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2019 at 3:45 PM
  25. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Don't post links to the Sun, you prick
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2019 at 3:45 PM
    Bingo, S☼I, cupid_stunt and 7 others like this.
  26. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

  27. Ming

    Ming Massive prawns

    Michael Gove IS Anne Widdecombe on weekends.
     
  28. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    :eek:
     

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