The end of tube train advertising?

[kyser_soze]

Is the intention to add something interesting to the world of existing things and ideas

What, by filling the world with mediocrity? Ever hear the phrase 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'? You might have the intention to add something good to the world, but where is the guarantee it will happen? Demonstrate to me that your good intentions wouldn't end up just as shite as what happens now - without anyone being able to sell anything, we end up with acres, hectares, of deeply tedious art.

Sorry, I don't buy into your intention offering any kind of improvement on what's there now.

 

[jæd]

You haven't addressed it at all. Is the intention to add something interesting to the world of existing things and ideas...or to make money? It's very clear-cut.

Making something that looks "interesting" isn't the same as making something that is "art"...

 

[kyser_soze]

What's so wrong with wanting to make money, for a business to want to sell it's products? Clearly this is a bad intention...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What's so wrong with wanting to make money, for a business to want to sell it's products?

Nothing. What is wrong is for them to be allowed to deface our built environment in order to do so.

 

[jæd]

Nothing. What is wrong is for them to be allowed to deface our built environment in order to do so.

How are they defacing it then...? For this you'll have to argue that the majority find it un-attractive and oppressing, btw...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What, so you'd insist that this art be uniformly cheerful, happy and uplifting to this 'improve' people's lives? And whom, or what, would make these choices that the rest of us have to put up with?

Anyone who uses the tube could be involved in choosing stuff. If interested, you could be asked what you wanted on a website, competitions could be run, Meltdown-style curators could be appointed. All these options would have one thing in common - an intention to fulfil people's needs and desires in order to enrich life, rather than create new needs and desires in order to sell something and thereby increasing the sum of human discontent.

 

[kyser_soze]

an intention to fulfil people's needs and desires in order to enrich life,

Ah, so in a transport system used by about 2 million people, you go about establishing those needs and desires to 'enrich' their lives by popular vote, committee and so forth? So you'll either get people who are committed social activists, like yourself, foisting what they see as worthwhile and enriching on people, or end up with some awful X-factor based polling - and you have seen the shite that gets voted for on X Factor haven't you?

We'd be wall deep in Vettriano copies and the kind of crud you see against the wall of Hyde Park within a month, and it wouldn't be an especially enriching experience - and you'd still be increasing the sum of human discontent.

 

[salem]

They are refurbishing stations along the Northern line at the moment (doing quite a fantastic job of it) and quite interestingly don't seem to have put up as many adverts after finishing.

The 48 sheet ones are still there but the ones on the platform side are not. I guess to maximise the impact of the ones which were left.

I can't say the adverts annoy me too much and I think given the choice most people would choose to keep them if it saves them 5-35p/journey (roughly, based on 5% revenue as mentioned above). I'm guessing fares would go up by that much again when the costs of producing the art are added to the lost revenue. And even then the art would be mass produced and probably of a low quality.

 

[paolo]

I'd like to think there could be a less advertising. It's awhile since I've been to New York, but I can't remember seeing much on the subway.

 

[hovis]

Even if it doesn't do that explicitly, it can do so implicitly - a picture of a sunny beach whilst your sat on a tube platform is probably going to make you feel dissatisfied with standing on a tube platform even if it isn't saying "Hey loser look at your miserable existance".

Just reminds me - I can't be the only one who REALLY HATES those Australian tourist board adverts which say "Where the fuck are you?" or whatever.

 

[ovaltina]

Just reminds me - I can't be the only one who REALLY HATES those Australian tourist board adverts which say "Where the fuck are you?" or whatever.

Nope - they get on my nerves too. They're about as convincing as The Flying Doctors. I hate that tone of voice, where they sound like they're about to laugh. It's like they're saying, we're all so happy, we can barely contain ourselves! Coz we're in Australia! Woo! I wonder what the ads telling Aussies to come to Britain are like though? Probably worse - it'll all be stately homes and cups of tea

 

[teuchter]

I wonder what the ads telling Aussies to come to Britain are like though? Probably worse - it'll all be stately homes and cups of tea

Maybe it's pictures of Aussies getting pissed with other Aussies in Walkabout bars. That seems to be their favourite element of British culture.

 

[Mr T]

Saw the projector ads on the southbound Victoria line platform at Euston last night - they cleverly switch off 10 seconds before the train enters the platform. Was showing a thankyou message from 'smokefree england' when we were there, and the projected bit actually seemed a lot smaller than the paper adverts which were still up on the rest of the platform walls.

 

[editor]

I was blasted by 20 seconds of some weird strobe-like adverts in the tunnel into Heathrow on the Heathrow Express. It looked very weird. But sort of sci-fi cool too.

 

[HackneyE9]

This debate wouldn't be complete without raising the point that soooo many people in this country automatically see higher taxation as a bad thing. This is kind of weird, because not too many miles away from us, over a very narrow channel that you can see across with the naked eye on a clear day, there are all sorts of countries with higher taxation than us who are also consistently measured as having a higher standard of living/quality of life than this country. It's weird the way Britain just pretends all those countries don't exist.

I only mention it because presumably that's how Berlin's metro can afford to be advert free.

As someone who's lived in Berlin and Paris - absolutely. Except only thing is, U-bahn in Berlin isn't stressful anyway 'cos it's always empty, and hardly has any ads, but it does have those new electronic screens they've started putting in some London buses - very distracting and annoying.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Ah, so in a transport system used by about 2 million people, you go about establishing those needs and desires to 'enrich' their lives by popular vote, committee and so forth? So you'll either get people who are committed social activists, like yourself, foisting what they see as worthwhile and enriching on people, or end up with some awful X-factor based polling - and you have seen the shite that gets voted for on X Factor haven't you?

We'd be wall deep in Vettriano copies and the kind of crud you see against the wall of Hyde Park within a month, and it wouldn't be an especially enriching experience - and you'd still be increasing the sum of human discontent.

We've hit the point of our disagreement.

It is two-fold.

First, you think companies trying to sell us things are more likely to produce a pleasant environment than people whose desire is simply to produce a pleasant environment without trying to sell us things. I disagree.

Second, in public spaces, I think people should not have advertising forced on them. For the same reason, I object strongly to the advertising screens at the front of post office queues. We're not making informed consumer choices when we use public transport or facilities such as the post office. There is no choice involved, so I think it is inappropriate for anybody to be allowed to pay to put their advertising in these public spaces without first proving a public interest in doing so - in this way notices for upcoming gigs, shows, etc would be allowed. You disagree.

We'll have to agree to disagree, I think.

 

[cybertect]

Ads on the Tube can be perfectly delightful. LT themselves have a proud tradition of advertising posters

Edward McKnight Kauffer

Man Ray

Hans Unger

 

[MackeralPhillip]

Yes, but those adverts aren't helpfully pointing out that with a boob job, you would be happier and more confident- or that you should put lemon in your cider (heathens). The adverts you exampled are by actual artists- it is more like art on a theme of transport, than the adverts we currently have on the tube. I do believe that the Space Hijackers' plan was to leave any of the London Underground Poetry "ads" (for want of a better word) and to just remove all advertising. In fact, it would be wonderful if London Underground decided, once again, to comission great artists to make pieces to go on the walls of platforms and in the carriages of the trains.

 

[cybertect]

I was attempting to illustrate that 'sponsored art' needn't be objectionable, even in the context of the Tube.

They're still commissioning artists to design new posters anyhow.

For example, Paul Catherall has done a number of lino-cut posters for TfL since 2001. This series of four seasons from 2006

 

[beeboo]

I think it is inappropriate for anybody to be allowed to pay to put their advertising in these public spaces without first proving a public interest in doing so - in this way notices for upcoming gigs, shows, etc would be allowed

So ads for some z-list celeb taking a starring role is Chicago is OK as it serves the public interest?

I'd liked your arguement better before you added that slightly bizarre caveat.

Why can't people who are interested in a gig or show look it up on the publically available internet facilities you were advocating earlier? Or will they be too full of people trying to buy insurance?

 

[g force]

I was attempting to illustrate that 'sponsored art' needn't be objectionable, even in the context of the Tube.

They're still commissioning artists to design new posters anyhow.

For example, Paul Catherall has done a number of lino-cut posters for TfL since 2001. This series of four seasons from 2006

Agreed...I'd like to see more of that and less Berocca ads

 

[ovaltina]

Ads on the Tube can be perfectly delightful. LT themselves have a proud tradition of advertising posters

Those are lovely. There's an exhibition of old LT posters on at the transport museum. I might go and have a look at some point.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So ads for some z-list celeb taking a starring role is Chicago is OK as it serves the public interest?

I'd liked your arguement better before you added that slightly bizarre caveat.

Why can't people who are interested in a gig or show look it up on the publically available internet facilities you were advocating earlier? Or will they be too full of people trying to buy insurance?

So nobody puts anything on in London except to make tonnes of dough? Tell that to Editor.

I recently moved to Hastings. Maybe the public-spirited nature that leads every pub, restaurant, etc there to be covered in posters about local events has rubbed off. This lead me to consider it a legitimate use of public space.

 

[beeboo]

So nobody puts anything on in London except to make tonnes of dough? Tell that to Editor.

I recently moved to Hastings. Maybe the public-spirited nature that leads every pub, restaurant, etc there to be covered in posters about local events has rubbed off. This lead me to consider it a legitimate use of public space.

I think a lot of this comes down to scale, more than what is being advertised.

At the local level, I think few people would object to posters about the village fete, local bakery, bookshop etc. It's all advertising, and some for businesses who want to turn a profit.

Factor that up to London and it's multinationals flogging stuff via whizzy electrickery advertising.

 

[Roadkill]

Tbh I don't care very much about tube train advertising. It's just part of the scenery, and most of it is pretty nondescript.

I don't think I've ever bought anything because of it, although I have watched one or two TV programmes because they were advertised on the tube (and regretted it, because they were invariably shit ). Clearly people do, though, or advertisers wouldn't bother.

Those flashing adverts in tunnels that people have mentioned would be much more irritating, though. I can ignore a poster and carry on reading a book, but something flashing past the window would be distracting.

 

[jæd]

There is no choice involved, so I think it is inappropriate for anybody to be allowed to pay to put their advertising in these public spaces without first proving a public interest in doing so - in this way notices for upcoming gigs, shows, etc would be allowed.

Depends what you mean by the "publics interest"...? Is it in their interest to be able save money, to know about a new medical treatment, or that there's a new CD coming out...?

You'd need to get some kind of public committee to sit on this and decide each case. The whole thing would take months to approve new posters and it would be completely unworkable...

 

[Wolveryeti]

I find some advertising more fascinating than some art, because it´s fun to speculate as to the thought patterns generated in the minds of the creators and all advertising is a chronicle for its time. I would much rather look at it than some feted minimalist crap with three intersecting lines on a blank canvas or something like that.

Why fix what isn´t broken? I think it´s patronising to suggest that commuters have their quality of life diminished by ads. Just bring a book or a stereo next time you´re on a tube...

 

[winjer]

I think it´s patronising to suggest that commuters have their quality of life diminished by ads.

That would only make sense if those removing the ads never travelled on the tube themselves.

 

[Bristly Pioneer]

I think it´s patronising to suggest that commuters have their quality of life diminished by ads. Just bring a book or a stereo next time you´re on a tube...

Well I'm a commuter too, and I find my quality of life diminished by them.

I love the poems on the underground, I also like the platform for art stuff too.

The exhibitions they put on at gloucester road are often amazing:

all of this is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than advertising, and doesn't try to make you feel like shite in order to make a profit.

I'm 100% behind a ban in advertising on the underground. I think like the BBC it should be a haven from mcdonalds and the like.

I was also massively impressed with the Parisian anti-pub movement which we saw during the ESF in 2003. Literally EVERY advert had been crossed out on the entire metro system. It was ugly, but also quite beautiful

 

[salem]

Just reminds me - I can't be the only one who REALLY HATES those Australian tourist board adverts which say "Where the fuck are you?" or whatever.

I have no idea why, but every time I open this thread, this post makes me giggle