got this via Dic Penderyn, unfortunately only episode one of the thirteen part tv series Written and presented by Wynford Vaughan-Thomas and Gwyn Williams Wynford Vaughan-Thomas, broadcaster and writer of many books about Wales, visits the Paviland Caves where ancient human remains were found, and argues that the beginning of Wales can be traced back many thousands of years. He also nestles up to Arthur's Stone and has a look at some stone circles. Gwyn Williams, Professor of History and lifelong Marxist, takes great exception to this view. He begins his history of Wales down a disused coalmine, and argues that Welsh history proper began only 1,500 years ago. Throughout the episode, the two experts present their incompatible views of Wales and their totally different approach to history and how to define it. In the final part of this episode, they come face-to-face. From "The Dragon Has Two Tongues: A History of the Welsh" Episode One: Where to Begin' (1985).