The Destruction of Fallujah Report

[Kaka Tim]

That is an utter falsehood spread by the leftwing to try and depreciate the heroism of the marines/paras that fought to save the falklanders from argentinian rule.

Sorry - I forgot that the british army is a model of gentlemanly conduct when fighting wars.

Unlike every other army in history.

War IS barbarism - and if you unleash units like the marines or the paras (whose job is to be the most violent and brutal in the forces) on a civilian population you will get widespread destruction, death and brutality - its what they do.

Fallujah was flattened as a lesson to the rest of Iraq - this is what happens if you defy the new free, democratic order. Its an old imperialist trick - practised down the years by the likes of the romans, the british empire ('How dare you!' Dr Evil) and the third reich.

 

[Dr_Evil]

Speaking of the heroism of the Marine corps is like speaking of the heroism of the Waffen SS. Kiddie killers do not equal heros... that's a fact!

Show me proof that the marines (Royal) are kiddie killers or take back your heinous accusation!

 

[bigfish]

Show me proof that the marines (Royal) are kiddie killers or take back your heinous accusation!

Fuck off fash!

 

[Dr_Evil]

Fuck off fash!

Cant prove it can you? so shut the fuck up you immbecile!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just think about it. Stalin said of every situation, 'who stands to benefit'

Oh dear.

I think you'll find it was about 2,000 years before Stalin, old dear.

Try that dusty old Roman Cicero asking "Cui bono?."

 

[nino_savatte]

I think we've seen Dr Evil on these boards before under a different guise - non?

 

[dylanredefined]

well big fish put up or shut up

 

[cynical_bastard]

So, just to summarise:
This article was released by islammemo.cc, a jihadist news site. The article linked is itself a translation.
It includes the claims that nerve gas was used, a fact denied by the Iraqi Health Ministry, the supposed originators of the claim, and as yet unproven despite the alleged plethora of gassed animals available for autopsies and tissue samples.
This article is the only available mention of Dr. Hafidh al-Dulaimi or his organisation and provides no proof that they actually exist.
Islamonline.com, used for corroborating evidence, is owned by AJ Publishing, a Dubai based fundamentalist company who have a long track record of publishing false news stories on aljazeera.com.

 

[bigfish]

So, just to summarise:
This article was released by islammemo.cc, a jihadist news site. The article linked is itself a translation.
It includes the claims that nerve gas was used, a fact denied by the Iraqi Health Ministry, the supposed originators of the claim, and as yet unproven despite the alleged plethora of gassed animals available for autopsies and tissue samples.
This article is the only available mention of Dr. Hafidh al-Dulaimi or his organisation and provides no proof that they actually exist.
Islamonline.com, used for corroborating evidence, is owned by AJ Publishing, a Dubai based fundamentalist company who have a long track record of publishing false news stories on aljazeera.com.

So, just to summarise: The BBC is the principle propaganda megaphone of the British ruling elite and routinely peddles outright lies emanating from the State (the fake dossier's, WMD), along with other spurious and deceitful 'information' issued in furtherance of the elite's bloody imperialist ambitions in the Middle East that have so far resulted in the deaths of more than 100,000 Iraqi citizens subsequent to the invasion (the Lancet) and more than a million deaths (at least half of them children by the UN's own estimate) prior to it during the USuk inspired sanctions regime. And yet in both of these very important examples the BBC actively sought to repudiate statistically reliable research by deploying two highly paid Oxbridge toad types (Bishop Paxman and Adolf Esler) to do hatchet jobs, thereby aiding and abetting in the ongoing cover-up of the criminal activity of the financial oligarchy and its political minions in government.

Presenting itself rather laughingly and with a straight face as a paragon of "objective" journalism, the BBC usually corroborates its own 'evidence', is wholly owned by the British ruling elite but wholly financed by the British public (who, as you might expect, have absolutely zero say in the kind of people the organization employs or the quality of the material it purports to broadcast as 'news' or 'political analysis') and has a long and disgusting track record of broadcasting and publishing false news stories (propaganda) both on radio and television and on its website.

 

[bigfish]

Cant prove it can you? so shut the fuck up you immbecile!

Listen wanktoad, this thread is about Fallujah, get it!? I was referring to the US Marine corp who butchered anything that moved in that town only recently, including children, get it!?

As for your beloved Royal Marines, the city of Basra, Iraq’s second largest, was subjected to a fierce bombardment and siege by US and British troops, including Royal Marines, during the first week of the war. Three hospitals in the city recorded 413 deaths during the invasion, but this figure did not include those who did not die in hospital or who did not end up in hospital morgues. In addition, the same survey claims to have documented 6,734 civilian deaths in the Basra region subsequent to the invasion. There can be little doubt that children are among these fatalities, so how many of them can we put down to the Royal Marines do you think?

By the way, I notice you cleverly omitted to make any further mention of those barbarians in the Paratroop regiment... good for you!

 

[cynical_bastard]

So, just to summarise: The BBC is the principle propaganda megaphone of the British ruling elite and routinely peddles outright lies emanating from the State (the fake dossier's, WMD), along with other spurious and deceitful 'information' issued in furtherance of the elite's bloody imperialist ambitions in the Middle East that have so far resulted in the deaths of more than 100,000 Iraqi citizens subsequent to the invasion (the Lancet) and more than a million deaths (at least half of them children by the UN's own estimate) prior to it during the USuk inspired sanctions regime. And yet in both of these very important examples the BBC actively sought to repudiate statistically reliable research by deploying two highly paid Oxbridge toad types (Bishop Paxman and Adolf Esler) to do hatchet jobs, thereby aiding and abetting in the ongoing cover-up of the criminal activity of the financial oligarchy and its political minions in government.

Presenting itself rather laughingly and with a straight face as a paragon of "objective" journalism, the BBC usually corroborates its own 'evidence', is wholly owned by the British ruling elite but wholly financed by the British public (who, as you might expect, have absolutely zero say in the kind of people the organization employs or the quality of the material it purports to broadcast as 'news' or 'political analysis') and has a long and disgusting track record of broadcasting and publishing false news stories (propaganda) both on radio and television and on its website.

You're like a bad caricature from an Ann Coulter article.

 

[bigfish]

You're like a bad caricature from an Ann Coulter article.

Gee, do you really think so Cyn?

So, what are you then... the voice of reason?

 

[fela fan]

So, what are you then... the voice of reason?

Isn't that one of them commentators in one of the tabloids?? It was always the byline that had the most irony and laughter value in it for me, but then i'm behind the times.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Life after Fallujah. Refugees in the refugee camps talk...

more Scroll to the top of the page.

 

[timetofillapit]

most of the military and the right wing press think the BBC is full of communists
so its probably doing something right if everyone hates it.
exactly how do you take a city off people who want to fight it for you without wide spread devasation.
I think theres rather more civillians alive than after the russians retook grozny
as for the nerve gas and body part harvesting thats right up there with cannibal gurkha's high on drugs with sony walkmans
from the falklands

 

[Bob_the_lost]

as for the nerve gas and body part harvesting thats right up there with cannibal gurkha's high on drugs with sony walkmans
from the falklands

Give them some hot sauce and they might , they eat anything, nice lads every time i've met them.

 

[timetofillapit]

there a book from the argie side of things conscipts going on about gurkhas
treading on mines and there mates finishing them off
and then charging across the mine field wearing sony walkmen?

 

[ska invita]

Looks like Tal Afar could be the new Fallujah.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1567069,00.html ... supposedly the US had control of this town but gave it to the Iraqi army to control, as it was seen as "soft", and out of the way of the main trouble spots. iraqi army failed to keep control, and it returned to the hands of militants.

Not a good sign for any future handover to Iraqi forces, and an even worse sign for the residents of Tal Afar, of which %30 have stayed in the city, ignoring calls to leave. These thousands remaing are dodging air strikes as we speak.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

The American military just doesn't seem to learn from past mistakes does it?

 

[audiotech]

Show me proof that the marines (Royal) are kiddie killers or take back your heinous accusation!

Not the Marines I know, but:

Fourteen people have died after being hit by the PVC tube-shaped rounds.

Seven of the dead were children, including a 12-year-old girl. The last to die was 15-year-old Seamus Duffy in 1989. Three other people died between 1972 and 1973 after being hit by the plastic baton round's predecessor, the rubber bullet.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/northern_ireland/1460116.stm

 

[audiotech]

There's more:

FOR 101 days, Royal Marines have been engaged in a farcical operation as mercenaries of the United States whose lawlessness now qualifies it as the world's leading rogue state. : John Pilger :04 Jul 2002
http://pilger.carlton.com/print/109955

 

[Bigdavalad]

There's more:

I don't think John Pilger counts as the most impartial journalist in the world though, does he?
The RM (and the rest of the British Forces) were acting as an extension of British foreign policy, as dictated by Blair and his cronies. They are not acting as mercanaries, because they were not being paid money to fight - they were drawing their normal wage (plus the LSSA money that is paid whenever you are away from your home barracks) which is what they would have been paid whether they were in Iraq fighting, Poole doing barracks bullshit or New Orleans digging out survivors.

 

[audiotech]

I don't think John Pilger counts as the most impartial journalist in the world though, does he?
The RM (and the rest of the British Forces) were acting as an extension of British foreign policy, as dictated by Blair and his cronies. They are not acting as mercanaries, because they were not being paid money to fight - they were drawing their normal wage (plus the LSSA money that is paid whenever you are away from your home barracks) which is what they would have been paid whether they were in Iraq fighting, Poole doing barracks bullshit or New Orleans digging out survivors.

Pilger is more impartial than most of the US media it seems:

I have just visited the United States, and it is clear many people there are worried. And many dare not say so. Their views are seldom reported in the American mainstream media, which is self-censored and controlled, perhaps as never before.

Pilger is one of the few journalist speaking out against US military power.

The British marines may not think of themselves as 'mercenaries' in this illegal war, however, that is indeed what the US are using their 'allies' for, along with a number of 'private' contractors.

 

[oi2002]

Sadly, as far as I can see, the American achieved exactly what they wanted to achive. They were able to widely disseminate (via the news media) a graphic example pour encourager les autres.

Just to take another line of outrage. Well they did encourage the others.

The US gave the rebels 2 months warning while Dubya secured his second term and most of them slipped away. The rebels then took the much larger Mosul while the MC were faffing about with their smart bombs in Fallujah#2.

The Americans in Fallujah did not replicate the Hama massacre nor did they deceive the enemy into concentrating to be killed and so for the Iraqi rebels it was if anything a demonstration of fatal weakness not power.

Replicating Hama at that late date probably wouldn't have worked either the time for demonstrations of extreme military brutality was on the battlefield when they invaded.

At this distant it appears they wrecked the city and killed at least a few hundred of it's inhabitants in what looks like a largely symbolic attack to avenge 4 barbecued American mercenaries and celebrate Dubyas re-election. Politicaly it ensured the Sunni would boycott the process. The city remains insecure. As I recall nearly 120 marines died in the two battles of Fallujah if I was an American that would make me mad as hell.

 

[Bigdavalad]

The British marines may not think of themselves as 'mercenaries' in this illegal war, however, that is indeed what the US are using their 'allies' for, along with a number of 'private' contractors.

Mercanaries fight for money, for anyone who pays enough. The British Forces are not mercs, neither are the American, French, German, Israeli, Iranian or any other army. The fact that TCB is too spineless to stand up to the shaved chimp isn't the fault of the soldiers who have to take the consequences of the lack of backbone.

 

[laptop]

Mercanaries fight for money, for anyone who pays enough.

The forces of a statelet that is paid may also be considered as mercenaries. Particuarly if you don't believe that politics began in 1871.

 

[Bigdavalad]

The forces of a statelet that is paid may also be considered as mercenaries. Particuarly if you don't believe that politics began in 1871.

I'm sorry, but what?

(a) When did Britain become a statelet?
(b) The US (as far as I am aware) haven't paid the British for the involvement of the British Army, RAF and RN.
(c) Why would politics have started in 1871?

You may not like the way that British forces are used by TCB and his cronies (and believe it or not, neither do we), but that doesn't make us mercenaries.

 

[audiotech]

Mercanaries fight for money, for anyone who pays enough. The British Forces are not mercs, neither are the American, French, German, Israeli, Iranian or any other army. The fact that TCB is too spineless to stand up to the shaved chimp isn't the fault of the soldiers who have to take the consequences of the lack of backbone.

I never said it was the fault of soldiers, who risk their lives at the behest of US corporate interests.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I never said it was the fault of soldiers, who risk their lives at the behest of US corporate interests.

"US corporate interests"?

I have a feeling that if you look deep enough you'll find that the majority are trans-nationals who happen to have their "head office" in the US.

 

[audiotech]

"US corporate interests"?

I have a feeling that if you look deep enough you'll find that the majority are trans-nationals who happen to have their "head office" in the US.

Fair point.