No i aint begrudgeing any one, a long time ago my class perspective was based on aspration to be like those i disliked, i read a few books from then to now, and i have no desire to be like the middle class, and if we come to the debate on defanition we are going to differ on our view points, me agreed to some extent i hate yes i said hate about 80% of the middle class, so why would there be any aspration to be like them, i would be hateing myself if i did..
The Dark Dim Knight & Other Middle Class Militants:
- Thread starter e19896
- Start date
No i aint begrudgeing any one, a long time ago my class perspective was based on aspration to be like those i disliked, i read a few books from then to now, and i have no desire to be like the middle class, and if we come to the debate on defanition we are going to differ on our view points, me agreed to some extent i hate yes i said hate about 80% of the middle class, so why would there be any aspration to be like them, i would be hateing myself if i did..
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Being able to afford things, and some financial security doesn't make someone stop being working class. Not all people that do these things end up as Hyacinth Bucket - alikes
Who are "the middle class"? Who are "the working class"?
Without you actually saying what you are talking about nothing else you say makes much sense.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Difficul to add anymore really. I grew up among 'aspirational' w/c people for whom working, making money and buying your home, car ownership etc were all things to aim for and be proud of once you'd got them...shame that aspiration didn't extend to being involved in their kids education beyond bitching about their kids wanting to stay post-16 (about 1/3 of the people who wanted to go to 6th form were given the option of going to work or leaving home to support themselves through college).
There's a difference if you want one, altho I would agree with SslaC comment about some m/c families being less consumerist...or at least being less obviously consumerist...like hippies with huge stereos...
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
But the education system is more accessible now than it was 30 years ago. But what you have now is loads more young people of all classes with degrees and loads of them not finding jobs, or just finding low paid jobs. Sure, if they've done a degree in something very specific (perhaps with sponsorship along the way) towards getting a start in something particular such as medicine or law, they'll probably be OK. But for the young people doing a degree in something non-specific, they're not at an advantage anymore by virtue of their degree.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
class envy?
¿mired in an archaic form of class-determinism ?
¿a classic example of solidarity-weakening (&false)class-division ?
Corax
Luke 5:16
Yep, let's see your definitions.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
If you prick us, do we not bleed?
bluestreak
HomosexualityIsStalin’sAtomBombtoDestroyAmerica
Echoes my experience this. My working class family are far more consumerist than most of the middle class people I know. Cash rules your life far more if you don't don't have it than if you do.
Sorry I should have made it clearer I meant at primary and secondary schools, if you dont get access to a decent education at that level then it makes it much harder later on.
Personally I think they are defunct and meaningless categories. There is a whole sliding scale of poor/powerless to rich/powerful, with infinite gradations along the way and more than one set of variables, not just money or jobs or political/public office or education or social networks...
...but people don't want to let go of this simplistic concept because a lot of political theory would have to go out of the window at the same time.
If there is actually a working class and a middle class, then globally speaking it looks something like this (albeit the Chinese bulge as has moved to the right since 1993):
The whole thing stems form the stigma of poverty. I have met many self confessed middle class in debt up to their eyeballs just to keep up with the Jones's ,its not just the children of single mother on benefit wearing eighty quid trainers bought with a provident loan. People are terrified of appearing poor, people look down on the poor. On the other hand there are people doing their best to live within their means and sod everyone else. Class snobbery exists on both sides and it holds a lot of people back in life
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I was just reflecting on what kyser said about educational aspirations post 16, maybe I replied to the wrong post.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
What you find are sub-standard institutions offering pointless and badly taught degrees, and it still doesn't address the basic issue that the lower down the income scale you go, generally the importance of education diminishes (there are a lot of other social factors in this, not just money) - and by this I don't mean people going to uni, I mean actually getting kids to go to school because the parents don't care about education themselves.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Education is still seen either as a passport, or as something to be endured/ rejected. I'd have been a lot more comfortable if more accessibility to further education hadn't entailed devaluing it.
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