The dangers of London's streets...

[Roadkill]

We're pretty much in agreement here, roryer - and I should get on with some work so I'll keep it brief.

Firstly,

However IMO the crux of the issue is reducing unnecessary car trips in our towns and cities.

This is the crux of one of the issues, if we go with my contention that urban and extra-urban transport are rather separate issues. I don't think we need say much more except that, as you've suggested, better provision for cyclists and a much-improved bus service are key to achieving this. I also think light rail/tram schemes have a part to play in some circumstances.

Where we part company is that I'm emphasising long-distance transport more, and tbh I think you're underestimating its importance slightly. Pogofish is absolutely right: we can't and musn't go back to a situation where people are significantly less mobile than now. Now, although you're right that the UK is a very urbanised society, I think your focus on the actual number of journeys made is slightly misleading. In terms of assessing environmental impacts, passenger-miles is a better measure, and on this inter-urban transport becomes much more significant. Moreover, the figures you give don't give journeys made between urban areas as a percentage of the total, and I'd be prepared to bet it's significant. That's why I'm keen to emphasise the importance of improving the railways. If that isn't done, then a) the motorways will become more and more congested, and more will be built, and b) the airlines - major polluters - will have a field day. I don't see this and improving facilities for non-car transport in cities as in any way mutually exclusive.

One thing missing from this discussion up to this point is freight traffic. On this site there are some facts and figures about HGV traffic - which is growing quickly - that make worrying reading, not least the fact that HGVs account for 7% of road traffic but about 20% of fatalities. Plus, in terms of reducing road congestion (and all of us, even Cobbles, accept this is necessary), getting HGVs off the road has to be a priority. Rail is the only viable way of doing this, making it doubly important that investment is targeted at the railways.

 

[roryer]

Also, in the meantime, this area's economy still depends on moving goods & equipment around. ... the 1920s-planned road system we currently use is quite unable to cope.

Yes agreed, the regions economy depends on moving goods around, what you will find though is that if you remove the short and unessesary trips (up to 70% of the total), get rid of single occupancy cars by funding or requiring car share schemes at all major employers, or simply enforcing restrictions on single occupany driving during the rush hour, the current routes will be more than sufficent for moving goods and people.

If NESTRANS would spend £350m on sustainable transport like a network of bicycle lanes, car sharing, car clubs, flexible buses, park and ride, improved train services, BRT schemes, parking restrictions in town, pressure and carrots for employers to adapt, travel awareness campaigns, safe routes to school, cycle facilities for changing and showering and locking bikes in town. etc, etc. instead of on a bypass things would get a little better.

 

[pogofish]

the current routes will be more than sufficent for moving goods and people.

If NESTRANS would spend £350m on sustainable transport like a network of bicycle lanes, car sharing, car clubs, flexible buses, park and ride, improved train services, BRT schemes, parking restrictions in town, pressure and carrots for employers to adapt, travel awareness campaigns, safe routes to school, cycle facilities for changing and showering and locking bikes in town. etc, etc. instead of on a bypass things would get a little better.

The routes were inadequate back in the 1970's & have simply got much worse since. You really don't appreciate just how far out of the loop this city is for transport infrastructure, of all sorts.

If they would, it may help but all that lot come-up with is token gestures before defering to the usual interests. Indeed, many of them think the Deeside cycle route is complete all the way to Ballater when it actually stalled a decade ago at three unconnected stretches of 7, 2 & 5 miles. Then there is all the fuss about the reinstatement of the old railway line with a cycle track beside it - Again, the oposition is being orchestrated by exactly the same folk who are behind opposition to the bypass. Namely the top of oil-rich buisness sector who don't want their little enclave sullied by oiks.

Oh, here is our newest cycle-lane. All of it:

When the pedestrian-bus zone starts happening, next year sometime, it will probably become redundant anyway because the cycle ban will start at the junction ahead. Also, that stretch of newly completed road was part of the Colquhist Plan of 1952 except that is is now intended to primarilly serve the Bridge Street bus-ramp instead of a the only remaining cross-centre road.

 

[Roadkill]

That's not a cycle lane - it's an insult!

 

[pogofish]

Exactly, but sadly indicative of the level of serious thought given to alternatives in many places.

Talk & action are two very different things.

 

[roryer]

£350m investment in action would have some results, unfortunatley its all about funding, £bns for the HA for road expansions, £10m Cycling England budget for cycle promotion. I wonder why cycle lanes are so poor?

 

[pogofish]

Yes & the bus companies in particular are doing their damnedest to see that they get the lions share

Also this:

A Private company proposed introducing a £5 parking charge at Aberdeen's biggest hospital, the Evening Express can reveal.

Vinci Park UK suggested the move as a way of forcing staff off the core site - the spaces next to clinics outwith the main Foresterhill car park.

NHS Grampian has defended the extension of the £5 tariff to the main car park, saying it would stop people using it like a "park and ride" .

But we can reveal Vinci's regional manager Peter Barriball first suggested a price hike in May 2005.

An e-mail from him to estates manager Gary Mortimer - obtained under the Freedom of Information Act - said: "The only real deterrent is the two- tier tariff.

"I would suggest a reasonable rate, the existing £1 charge for the first five hours of any visit, and for any period over this £5.

"The outside car parks can continue as now."

But Mr Barriball also warned there would be "added pressure on the other car parks".

In the same e-mail, he suggested reducing fines to get more people to pay them - an idea rejected by NHS Grampian.

He said: "£40 reducing to £20 is too high. We would suggest a £20 fine reduced to £10 for rapid repayment.

"This could be sold as a positive. Parking controls are being toughened but not to raise revenue - if it was, why cut the price?"

The Evening Express is campaigning to have ARI's £5 charge - which was extended to the main car park in July - scrapped. Patients, staff and visitors have signed our petition.

Staff are expected to identify visitors and patients who fit exemption criteria and hand them a voucher so they are only charged the standard £1.

Since July, 1,725 £5 tickets have been handed out - with 653 requiring payment.

Foresterhill has around 2,000 spaces and rakes in around £1 million a year in charges.

Vinci Park UK is thought to be paid around £200,000 a year to patrol the Foresterhill site.

http://www.thisisaberdeen.co.uk/dis...uleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

Done under the banner of reducing car use & stopping "abuse" whilst targetting one of the city's major employers but also boosting the already considerable income of a private contractor, bus companies & the taxi firms who want to serve a site bought by public subscription by the people of this city.

Just try getting there by bus as well. If you are coming from the country (most of the region's surgical & out-paitent treatment has been centralised here, along with all the children's services) or all but one district of town, you have to get a bus into the centre & then back out again. Typically, you are looking at a minimum of 4 bus journies & @£10 per day to commute there. Visitors after 8pm & on Sundays (peak day for visiting) also get reduced frequency so taxi's are the only reasonable option. I've done a journey away from there by bus, after minor surgery & fuck it took ages, the anaesthetic wore-off before I'd even got home. OW!

Don't start me on the comedy that has been the park & ride - Where the First Bus raised the fare for a carload at least fivefold (as well as 6 other unplanned "general" rises in the last 18 months) because "too many people were using it!" But still felt able to add extra stops to another "express" P&R service to keep the residents of a new upmarket estate happy.

 

[roryer]

Parking is the biggest issue of all, but also the biggest opportunity for enforcing change, and in all cases where there has been a success in causing modal shift it has been through limiting number of parking spaces and charging for those that remain and using the revenue to lay on better pt services.

To maintain a parking space; lighting, security, cleaning, upkeep etc. costs between £500 - £2000pa per space. Land Cost of the space: depends on rental value but in most urban locations it is considerble.

Most movement on pressurising organisations to put travel plan measures in place are through leveraging on the parking.

E.g. GlaxoSmithKline has about 15% of their staff on bikes travelling to a office situated on the main A4 corridor into London outside Hammersmith.

This was achieved through
1. The council permitting only 1500 spaces for a staff of over 3500.
2. The management running through the figures and realising they would have £billions in property vacant if they didn't act.
3. Management also seeing how much cheaper it was to pay for the best facilities for cyclists ever seen, and giving financial rewards for cycling than for renting overspill car-parking spaces.
4. Perehaps over-hyped consideration was the management seeing the positive good PR of adopting an eco-friendly image through promotion of cycling.

Hospitals are under pressure to do the same, and managing sustainable access to healthcare is a very tricky business.

Inmost cases hospitals charging for parking is only just sufficeint to pay for the costs of maintaining it.

Perhaps as you seem to suggest the NHS should spend more limited budget subsidising car travel, when obesity is such a massive problem costing them billions which is caused mainly by the sedentary lifestyle of our car dependent soceity then I would have thought this one was a no brainer.

Patients who are unable to travel can go by ambulance or dial a ride anyway.

 

[roryer]

One more thing, NHS hospitals, often cater for the old or the less financially mobile. These groups have amongst the lowest car ownership.

Your point is really indicative of the social exclusion that a car dependent soceity brings about, and is a symtom of car addiction, but supplying more free car parking spaces is not a cure!

Its like taking the first drink in the morining for a ancoholic, sure makes them feel better but the headache will be worse the next day.

Instead of argueing with me about the need for free parking and new wider roads why don't you write to NESTRANS about wasting £350m on a new road when we need wider cycle lanes, more flexible bus services, and adequate access to health care for all?

 

[pogofish]

One more thing, NHS hospitals, often cater for the old or the less financially mobile. These groups have amongst the lowest car ownership.

Your point is really indicative of the social exclusion that a car dependent soceity brings about

Instead of argueing with me about the need for free parking and new wider roads why don't you write to NESTRANS

Who have alyways been about the worst-served there & most dependant on folk like myself & other neighbours who see that our older residents get lifts to clinics/appointments/visits because few of their elderly friends & relations can put-up with the cost/sheer bother of getting there.

Maybe it is but the replacing it with a money-mill for Soutar, Gloag, Mair et-all is no answer at all.

Because I have completely given-up on them - the last couple of years have seen them close their ears to all but the vested interests. I used to be on their forum but even that is shut down now.