The cost of activism

[likesfish]

one things speaking out anothers trying to sneak onto a military base.
franky tobys a bit right on this one I'm afraid trying to gain access to a military base does tend to run the risk of getting shot at

 

[treelover]

I could go on Toby, Nuff said

http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

http://www.tomhurndall.co.uk/

I am fully aware of that, I am also aware they were prepared to die for their cause. First sign of a few sanctions on protest and the modern version shit themselves and start crying.

 

[sihhi]

So people HAVE in fact been jailed for peaceful protest

Of course they have and they will continue to be.
A grandmother in her seventies was locked in prison for not paying council tax FFS.

 

[Pilgrim]

Of course they have and they will continue to be.
A grandmother in her seventies was locked in prison for not paying council tax FFS.

I had completely forgotten about that case.

Well done for reminding me.

 

[In Bloom]

There were quite a few arrests at the first of the Pointless Picnics in London, does anybody know if anyone's been put in prison as a result?

 

[tobyjug]

Of course they have and they will continue to be.
A grandmother in her seventies was locked in prison for not paying council tax FFS.

Being jailed for none payment of a tax has nothing to do with percieved repressive laws against peaceful protest introduced by labour governments since 1997.

 

[Hanfstaengl]

The secret in future will not be protest, rather it will be subversion, change must come from within, "normal" folk will start acting odd , because odd people will never be perceived as normal.

 

[tobyjug]

The secret in future will not be protest, rather it will be subversion, change must come from within, "normal" folk will start acting odd , because odd people will never be perceived as normal.

A good contribution, no protest, gets taken any notice of, when it is just the usual suspects doing the protesting. The poll tax is a prime example, the government did not change its mind because of the riots, it changed its mind when it was normally law abiding people refusing to pay it and 1 million people disappeared from electoral registers.

 

[In Bloom]

the usual suspects

?

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

First sign of a few sanctions on protest and the modern version shit themselves and start crying.

I have sole care of two young children - if I get a prison term, my children will go into care, something which I not prepared to countance. If I get arrested or remanded, there is a good chance that I will lose my job and hence my means of providing for them and our home.

The consequences of me protesting in parliament square aren't just potentially a few nights in jail, but that I might lose my job, my income, my home and my children. Ultimately that is the real punishment - jail itself isn't the problem, either for protesters or for most other people who get caught up in the justice system, it is the consequences which are the punishment.

Dunno who your "real protesters" are tobyjug - the ones that are prepared to serve long jail terms or die for their beliefs, but I take my hat off to them, and will support them in any way that I can, but increasingly that means that I cannot join in protests directly as the consequences are increasing day on day.

 

[In Bloom]

I have sole care of two young children - if I get a prison term, my children will go into care, something which I not prepared to countance. If I get arrested or remanded, there is a good chance that I will lose my job and hence my means of providing for them and our home.

The consequences of me protesting in parliament square aren't just potentially a few nights in jail, but that I might lose my job, my income, my home and my children. Ultimately that is the real punishment - jail itself isn't the problem, either for protesters or for most other people who get caught up in the justice system, it is the consequences which are the punishment.

Dunno who your "real protesters" are tobyjug - the ones that are prepared to serve long jail terms or die for their beliefs, but I take my hat off to them, and will support them in any way that I can, but increasingly that means that I cannot join in protests directly as the consequences are increasing day on day.

Well, quite.

The funny thing about tobyjug's argument (and I use "funny" in the loosest possible sense here), is that he is arguing that protestors need to engage with "normal" people more, yet he castigates anybody who isn't willing to go to prison (and potentially lose their career, their children and several years out of their life) at the drop of a hat.

 

[Roadkill]

Very true, but not, I think, the only logical flaw in tobyjug's 'argument'.

 

[october_lost]

Last few posts have been top

 

[tobyjug]

My definition of peaceful protest is non violence towards people and animals.

Destruction of carefully targetted property, provided it is directly related to Trident, is permissible.

Legally it is not permissable, getting jailed for criminal damage is not the same as getting jailed for peaceful protest.
As yet, no-one, despite a plethora of repressive legislation by the "labour" government since 1997 has been jailed for peaceful protest.

 

[Pilgrim]

My point is they haven't been. Remember the destruction of aircraft that got thrown out of court.
This government can make as much repressibe legislation as it likes it does not mean the judiciary will back them up.

Erm, Tobyjug.

I presume you are referring to the 'Seeds Of Hope' action, during which a Hawk jet bound for Indonesia was destroyed.

IIRC, at least one of the people who did that was remanded for months. And the case was NOT thrown out of court. A full trial was gone through, with the activists being acquitted by a jury. Which rather torpedoes your suggestion of the judiciary not being willing to comply. As do the ever-growing number of cases that have political overtones that are seemingly decided well in advance of the trial. I've sat through several cases where the outcome was obvious before the trial even began.

 

[Pilgrim]

Legally it is not permissable, getting jailed for criminal damage is not the same as getting jailed for peaceful protest.
As yet, no-one, despite a plethora of repressive legislation by the "labour" government since 1997 has been jailed for peaceful protest.

And how is being jailed for refusing to pay a fine, on grounds of conscience, non-peaceful?

I really don't see any violence involved there.

 

[tobyjug]

Erm, Tobyjug.

I presume you are referring to the 'Seeds Of Hope' action, during which a Hawk jet bound for Indonesia was destroyed.

IIRC, at least one of the people who did that was remanded for months. And the case was NOT thrown out of court. A full trial was gone through, with the activists being acquitted by a jury. Which rather torpedoes your suggestion of the judiciary not being willing to comply. As do the ever-growing number of cases that have political overtones that are seemingly decided well in advance of the trial. I've sat through several cases where the outcome was obvious before the trial even began.

They were acquitted by a jury, with more than just a hint from the judge.

 

[tobyjug]

And how is being jailed for refusing to pay a fine, on grounds of conscience, non-peaceful?

I really don't see any violence involved there.

That is contempt of court and volunteering to go to prison.

 

[Pilgrim]

That is contempt of court and volunteering to go to prison.

It is refusal to pay a fine, on grounds of conscience and as an act of additional protest.

NON-VIOLENT protest.

For which a number of people have been jailed.