The Corrupt UN Shows Its Ususal Ignorance...

[rachamim18]

Nino: How does an Israeli veto to a UN measure somehow negate charges levelled against the UN as a whole? Please explain your rationale.

"Why does it matter where the poster is from.": IF a poster is insinuating an entire national character based upon the political wheelings and deal.lings that take place in EVERY govt., they certainly DO need to check their own backyard before condemning others.

 

[rachamim18]

"IS it an apology,etc.,etc.?": No, context which you evidently had none of. It was not "Harcore Socialist.?" OK, let us examine your claim. Who goverened the nation from Independance all the way until Begin? ALL agriculture is still collectivised to some degree, most of it sto a large degree reminiscent of the Eastern Bloc formulas. Medicine and Education are universally coverred, gender equality has been a law since creation, ethnic equality and racial equality has been since then as well. The Labour Federation which controls all the unions in our country? Ever examine it or its outlook? The issue of owning land? Should I keep on?

The only non-Socialist strain in Zionism was Revisonism. There are other sub genres now but that is the jist of it.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: How does an Israeli veto to a UN measure somehow negate charges levelled against the UN as a whole? Please explain your rationale.

"Why does it matter where the poster is from.": IF a poster is insinuating an entire national character based upon the political wheelings and deal.lings that take place in EVERY govt., they certainly DO need to check their own backyard before condemning others.

What the fuck are you talking about? You appear to only respond to the voices in your head. Because this is not a proper reply to my post.

 

[nino_savatte]

"IS it an apology,etc.,etc.?": No, context which you evidently had none of. It was not "Harcore Socialist.?" OK, let us examine your claim. Who goverened the nation from Independance all the way until Begin? ALL agriculture is still collectivised to some degree, most of it sto a large degree reminiscent of the Eastern Bloc formulas. Medicine and Education are universally coverred, gender equality has been a law since creation, ethnic equality and racial equality has been since then as well. The Labour Federation which controls all the unions in our country? Ever examine it or its outlook? The issue of owning land? Should I keep on?

The only non-Socialist strain in Zionism was Revisonism. There are other sub genres now but that is the jist of it.

Sorry, Israel is not no has never been a "hardcore socialist country". That is a myth perpetrated by Likudniks.

 

[phildwyer]

The "Corrupt UN"...how many times have I heard nutty right wing USers come out with this shite? According to these people, their own governments are shining examples of propriety; they play fair and they adhere to the rule of law...or so they think. The UN's decision making processes have been hamstrung by players like the US and Israel and their allies.

No they have not: the veto is an integral part of the UN's decision-making processes. Since international borders are generally accidents of history, why should a majority of nation-states be able to decide policy for the entire world? It should not, is the answer, and that is why the veto exists. To describe it as an impediment to the UN is to misunderstand the nature of that body.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: I will ignore your spate of insults. The Mods have addressed that with you rather well.

Phil:I agree with the point on the Veto. Complaining about it always leaves me mystified. They do not get upset that the same body that ratified Israel into existence as a Zionist State now, by way of majority, criticise this same UN Mandate and say it is racist. Amazing to me.

 

[phildwyer]

Nino: I will ignore your spate of insults. The Mods have addressed that with you rather well.

Phil:I agree with the point on the Veto. Complaining about it always leaves me mystified. They do not get upset that the same body that ratified Israel into existence as a Zionist State now, by way of majority, criticise this same UN Mandate and say it is racist. Amazing to me.

The UN is a farce and a joke. The US and UK showed how much they respect the UN when they steamrollered their way into Iraq over its protests. The UN should not have survived that revelation of its true nature.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The UN is a farce and a joke. The US and UK showed how much they respect the UN when they steamrollered their way into Iraq over its protests. The UN should not have survived that revelation of its true nature.

Interesting that you blame the UN for the results of structural problems introduced by some of it's members, failing to acknowledge that the UN could only ever be as successful as it's most influential members allowed it to be.

 

[rachamim18]

Phil: Hmmm...It IS a point but more to the point in THAT debacle was the underhanded , almost blatant fraud committed by Kofi, his son, and many minions. The UN is ineffective in every major area.

Panda says that it should not be faulted because its most influential members do not allow it to shine. I do not see it that way. Its most influential members come from different points on the compass and as expected have conflicting outlooks. It is natural to resist judgement, censorship, and the like. To allow a non-binding edict to rule you is senseless. If it conflicts with your value system, why would you ever honour it?

The UN IS the sum of its members but apart from nations pulling the strings it is ideology that pulls strings. Blocs of nations, like the Arab League (of course that particular group would cross MY mind), are what directs the way the UN acts.

I am sure that there could be a more equitable system in place so that more prsperous nations do not have more say,etc. but have not paid that much attention to that problem to offer any ideas. I DO know that with their track record, noone could fault any nation for not obeying the UN blindly.

 

[frogwoman]

The UN has the potential to be a very good organisation. Unfortunately is an organisation made by (the most powerful) states, for states, which seriously limits its capabilities and also means that it will be biased and ineffective ...

 

[phildwyer]

Interesting that you blame the UN for the results of structural problems introduced by some of it's members, failing to acknowledge that the UN could only ever be as successful as it's most influential members allowed it to be.

My point is that its most powerful members will never allow it to be effective if it seriously contravenes their wishes, as we saw clearly over Iraq. That debacle revealed the fact that the US and UK are merely using the UN when it suits them, and will tell it to fuck off whenever it doesn't. Given this situation it would be better if it did not exist at all.

 

[Fruitloop]

The UN is composed entirely of elite national interests, and thus is unable to act as an honest broker between them when one or more parties act outside international law. However, it does a lot more than the headline-grabbing international conflict mediation, and I can't particularly see how we would be better off without it altogether.

 

[phildwyer]

The only time I ever went to the UN was to hear a nutter give a speech claiming that UFOs were real and the CIA was covering them up (I was ghost-writing a book for said nutter). I thought it rather rum that such an auspicious organization was sponsoring such nonsense at the time.

 

[Fruitloop]

Wasn't the CIA actually covering up its own saucer-related research by quietly fostering civilian UFO-nutter organisations like NICAP? That might explain why those loons had more apparent credibility than one might have expected.

 

[phildwyer]

Wasn't the CIA actually covering up its own saucer-related research by quietly fostering civilian UFO-nutter organisations like NICAP? That might explain why those loons had more apparent credibility than one might have expected.

Well actually the nutter had uncovered pretty convincing evidence that the CIA believed UFOs to be real. My conclusion from that was that the CIA are nutters, but he took it as proof of alien life. But he really *was* a nutter, which you wouldn't know if you just read his book (which you can't because afaik he never published it).

 

[rachamim18]

Haaaa. Classic UN. Sure beats the little flags in the gift shoppe or toying with their cheap as^ headphones in the Hall.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino: I will ignore your spate of insults. The Mods have addressed that with you rather well.

Phil:I agree with the point on the Veto. Complaining about it always leaves me mystified. They do not get upset that the same body that ratified Israel into existence as a Zionist State now, by way of majority, criticise this same UN Mandate and say it is racist. Amazing to me.

What "spate of insults"? have you ever heard of The Pot Calling the Kettle Black? You're clearly more hurt than hurting.

Post reported.

 

[rachamim18]

Nino: Glad to see you survived and are true to form. Welcome Back.

 

[rachamim18]

Cause I care about you so much Nino, I will remind you of your last spate of personal insults so you can satisfy your apparent curiosity:

"What the fuc^ are you talking about? You appear to only respond to the voices inside your head."

 

[nino_savatte]

Post reported. Though I don't expect the mods to do anything.

ETA: Nope, nothing done. He carries on regardless. Does he enjoy some form of immunity?

 

[rachamim18]

Reporting on yourself now Nino? Perhaps we can consider that an improvement. Keep up the great work then!!!

 

[sleaterkinney]

Or...When its former head Kofi Annan plays games for profit with embargoed oil, his son does, his best friend does...or when Congolese , Liberian, and Sierra Leonian posted UN troops commit gross crimes against humanity...or when those posted to Eritrea rape underaged girls in exchange for 5 kilo bags of mealy rice...or UNIFIL aids and abets murder not once but twice....or allows smuggling of weapons and the subversion of Lebanese democracy....Should I continue Nino? Or do you still want to play ostrich and pretend it all has to do with the US and Israel?

Can you point out to me,

1) Where people have been bigging up the UN and regard it in it's current form as the solution. Because otherwise this thread would be meaningless.

2) How the Un's shortcomings mean that we should ignore Israels or the US's shortcomings

 

[rachamim18]

Sleater: Perhaps it is my lack of English but "Bigging up" as I take it would mean "lauding," yes? Ergo, I do not understand your point.

The issue this thread addresses is the move within the UN, to criticise Israeli via Resolution, as often happens there. My take on it is that the UN is so riddled with major problems that it is far from fit to judge a county fair frog race, let alone an ancient conflict between 2 ancient People. Let the UN institute wide sweeping reforms before trying to spread its misery aborad.

"Just because of the UN's shortcomings, should we ignore Israel's and the US?": First of all, the US and Israel are two vastly different subjects and you could have substitued any nation for either one. The UN is not fit to deal with ANY nation.

Should the world ignore the US or Israel? Nope. Noone should. That is why, independant of the UN, we have an International Justice Tribunal.IF, Israel for example since it is on your mind, were to commit a grievous act that contravenes International Law you or any other concerned party can raise the issue at the Hague.


The UN is not an arbiter of anything apart from the opinions of its many member states. All General Assembly Resolutions can do is voice opinion. As such, all they can do is serve divisiveness and function to manipulate nations and causes.

 

[nino_savatte]

Reporting on yourself now Nino? Perhaps we can consider that an improvement. Keep up the great work then!!!

You are quite clearly mad. Your post has been reported.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Sleater: Perhaps it is my lack of English but "Bigging up" as I take it would mean "lauding," yes? Ergo, I do not understand your point.

The issue this thread addresses is the move within the UN, to criticise Israeli via Resolution, as often happens there. My take on it is that the UN is so riddled with major problems that it is far from fit to judge a county fair frog race, let alone an ancient conflict between 2 ancient People. Let the UN institute wide sweeping reforms before trying to spread its misery aborad.

No, that is an ad-hominem attack, and is worthless, just because you don't like the message you are shooting the messenger. You have to refute the message.

 

[phildwyer]

My take on it is that the UN is so riddled with major problems that it is far from fit to judge a county fair frog race, let alone an ancient conflict between 2 ancient People.

Indeed. Even more to the point--the US and UK have recently demonstrated that they will simply ignore the UN whenever its policies conflict with their own. That being the case, why on earth should anyone else listen to what the UN says?

 

[rachamim18]

Sleater: IF the messenger is riddled with holes how can the message be anything but. Sometimes it matters.

Phil: Yeah, I see it is way past time for overhaul. Was reading about Bevan yesterday. Just amazing that this crap goes on subsidised by nations who outwardly express faith in the worthless pink elephant.