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The climate change bill - what's it worth?

Brainaddict

slight system overdrive
So it supposedly commits us to 60% cuts by 2050, but what happens if the governments don't live up to it? What's the sanction? A spanked botty? And without annual targets can't each government just foist responsibility for cuts onto the next government?

I don't know much about the details, so what are the good points and the bad points of the bill? Is it a brave step forward ahead of the pack or a useless tokenistic compromise?
 
This thread would seem to indicate that it's a load of old bollocks and nobody has any intention of cutting any emissions. For if the government did want to do so, they would of course have to renationalise the trains and slash fares; remove agricultural subsidies for livestock or find some other way to encourage more crop farming in the UK; set brutal fuel efficiency standards for all road vehicles; charge duty (and lots of it) on airline fuel; invest huge amounts in sensible renewable energy schemes (ie tidal/wave and not wind or solar); and generally go around doing lots of things that will make them unpopular with the businesses who tell them what to do. Which, history tells us, they certainly won't. And it would make fuck all difference anyway because the UK contains a tiny fraction of the world's population and the majority of the rest of them will be forced by their respective governments and the businesses who tell them what to do to carry on living more and more destructive lifestyles in pursuit of the holy grail of 'development'.
 
Mmm, I incline towards that point of view too but thought there might be some more positive views out there. On the bright side, we seem to be one of the first countries to introduce legally binding targets like this. On the downside, there is cross-party consensus on the 'need' for new airports and runways, which seems to suggest a distinct lack of commitment to what is being proposed in the bill.
 
Its a toothless pr stunt.

Were headed into a brick wall at 500mph. I will though, have the empty schadenfreud of seeing the financial markets melt down as the first part of the chaos to come. We at least have reasonable infrastructure that labour has done some good work to rebuild. The yanks are just plane fucked, their bridges are collapsing and there electic grid is in a very poor state.

Climate change used to be something I worried about so grand children would have a stable healthy world to live in.

A few years ago I began to suspect that the big impacts would be seen by my childrens generation.

Now I am seeing the impacts almost daily. The melt of the arctic ocean surface ice last year utterly shocked me to my core. Now I am an out and out doomer.
 
Now I am an out and out doomer.
Yes, you are aren't you? I'm not sure doommongering achieves much tbh. Whether or not you are *right* (and it is disputable) is not particularly relevant in the political sense - the point is that such pronouncements of doom don't really impel people to act, just to despair. So whether you are wrong or right people take away the message 'give up now because it's too late'. Which isn't very productive.
 
Yes, you are aren't you? I'm not sure doommongering achieves much tbh. Whether or not you are *right* (and it is disputable) is not particularly relevant in the political sense - the point is that such pronouncements of doom don't really impel people to act, just to despair. So whether you are wrong or right people take away the message 'give up now because it's too late'. Which isn't very productive.
"Doommongering?" If you care to dispute any of the numbers statistics or interpretations I give then feel free to do so in the relevant threads. I try to be meticulous in backing up my opinion with well sourced data. If it looks like doommongering then perhaps you should try to explain why I am wrong.
 
"Doommongering?" If you care to dispute any of the numbers statistics or interpretations I give then feel free to do so in the relevant threads. I try to be meticulous in backing up my opinion with well sourced data. If it looks like doommongering then perhaps you should try to explain why I am wrong.
It is disputable, but that wasn't the point of my post.
 
Fannying around with plastic bags and CO2 offsetting is as good as doing nothing. Either we radicaly and urgently totaly restructure of society or we are just pissing in the wind.



i saw a girl with a 'this is not a plastic bag' bag yesterday. The she turns to reveal what clutched in her left hand?


A plastic fucking bag:rolleyes:
 
Either we radicaly and urgently totaly restructure of society or we are just pissing in the wind.
Or we could accept that very, very few people are interested in restructuring society at this point - at least until real disaster strikes - and put our efforts into trying to mitigate environmental destruction as much as possible.
 
It's not something I've heard muted from anyone else, but it's struck me that maybe, and there might be an obvious why not that I'm missing, that on the issue of climate change party politics are totally suspended. Neither Labour or the Tories are prepared to make anywhere near the necessary proposals for fear of alienating voters and losing to the other. The Lib Dems are a bit better but until we get to PR they'll only really have rhetoric.

Of course, this doesn't solve the problem of rich fuckers griping with cuts in growth. "All men are born equal, but some are born more equal than others."
 
Or we could accept that very, very few people are interested in restructuring society at this point - at least until real disaster strikes - and put our efforts into trying to mitigate environmental destruction as much as possible.
How do we mitigate against climate change? Oil and coal are highly fungible comodities, gas not so much but can be. They are all in short supply and high demand. Any cutting of demand from the UK will be taken up eagerly by other countries. The days of us having any real chance at seriously mitigating climate change have past.

All we can do, is at 5 past 12, reduce our complicity in what is unfolding.

When you look at the giant populations of India, Brazil, Indonesia and China and there desire for a slightly better life, there governments are not going to be easy to persuade that climate change is a really major issue. Every slacking of comodity purchases in the west will be taken up by the south.

Until there is a global framework and action to actualy cut green house gass emissions substantialy then we are pretty much wasting our time. Hell in the UK reduction is not even on the cards. We are asked to turn of the TV standby, while expanding the M1 and building the 3rd runway.

We have locked in future increases in temperature due to thermal inirtia in the oceans and feedback mechanisms such as loss of arctic ice and less snow coverage during winter. Every year without a total cut in emissions we just add to the problem.

In terms of mitigation I guess all we can do is to lead by example and massively cut our green house gas emissions, hoping that in a few years the world will come round to our way of thinking and cut emissions enough that we slow the march to a 6C warmer world by a decade or two.
 
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