1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The children of Windrush

Discussion in 'UK politics, current affairs and news' started by Tropi, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. The older I get, the faster I was...

    The Windrush passengers were being beguiled to come to the UK, job fairs and help desks set up across the islands by major employers like the NHS and British Rail paying the fares in exchange for a few years commitment to help rebuild and renew the uk after the war. Between 61-63 the Tory health minister, a certain Enoch Powell recruited more nurses from the West Indies than previously. These people arrived to hostility and dismay. But helped rebuild this shattered country. All they asked was for a decent life and support for their families.
    And we still see the same hostility directed today as happened all those years ago.
    Fucking disgraceful and diabolical.
    No excuses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    A380, muscovyduck, Tropi and 15 others like this.
  2. xenon

    xenon Carne Por la Machina

    They're not illegal immigrants. They were given the right to remain in the UK at the time, when arriving with their parents. But weren't issued any official document to say as much. Those caught up in this, losing their jobs, threatened with deportation, have not ever applied for a British passport in the intervening years. So on paper, can't prove their status. Which hasn't been a problem til Teresa May changed the law a few years ago.
     
    agricola, A380, muscovyduck and 14 others like this.
  3. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    TBH the worrying thing is that this probably isn't a policy that has the level of thought that would be required for it to be deliberate - it comes from the same root cause as those stories that fill the Daily Mail of 90 year old grandmothers being "sent home"; ie the desperate attempts by the Home Office to find anyone at all that they can kick out, so as to make it look like the Tory electoral promise to lower immigration is being met whilst also not incurring undue expense to do so.

    It doesn't matter if you are black, white, asian, sick, well, have long-established roots and children here, if this is the only home you've ever known or even if you are here entirely legally; if they think they can get rid of you cheaply then they probably will have a good go. To say they are doing it to people deliberately is to miss the point of how banal this is; they are doing it in order to tick a box that says "we have done it" - that it ruins the lives of those involved doesn't really enter into it.
     
    pug, A380, muscovyduck and 9 others like this.
  4. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    If you can't even get this one important fact straight don't even bother please FFS! :facepalm:
     
  5. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    Correct. They are not illegal immigrants at all. That is the whole point. Proper records should have been kept when ILR was granted. The fact that they weren't isn't the fault of these people, many of whom were very young when they came to the UK

    I'm guessing we are now going to have to use the best database data we have and try and piece it together. Presumably we have good NI records from at least the 80s?
     
  6. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Many went to school here and would have taken exams before starting work. There are records of all of these things. They will have medical records. Plus their tax and NI records..the fact that hasn't stopped the HO hounding them beggars belief.

    CUNTS.
     
  7. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    friendofdorothy likes this.
  8. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    From 2016:

    No Tears Left to Cry: Being Deported Is a Distressing Nightmare
     
    Poi E and friendofdorothy like this.
  9. teqniq

    teqniq DisMembered

    Glad to see someone stated a thread on this. Been following this for quite a while and noticing a pattern, namely that the vast majority of people being harassed are people of colour. The home office had been deliberately obstructive, withholding information, delaying delivery of documents that these people are perfectly legally entitled to and generally behaving disgracefully. They are institutionally racist imo. I didn't realise until today that some people had already been deported, hopefully they will all be able to come back asap.
     
  10. 8115

    8115 sitting down is bad for you

    I have read that the required proof is 5 pieces of documentary evidence for each year in the UK although the Home Office have said they will "work with" people to help them build their case. I think most people would struggle to put that together.
     
  11. agricola

    agricola a genuine importer of owls

    Which is the truly perverse thing about this - if you have worked all your life, don't have a criminal record and don't have much of a record claiming benefits then you are far more likely to fall foul of this than someone whose status has already been established by the state; you also won't have much of a document trail with which to prove your status, nor are you likely to be aware of what your rights actually are.
     
    A380, muscovyduck, Poi E and 3 others like this.
  12. ddraig

    ddraig dros ben llestri

    surely if there is a record of anything like NI payments or school records before 1971 it should be a simple case
    also find it hard to believe there was no record made in 1971
     
  13. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    I'm going to say something here not everyone will agree with, and that's this.....none of this was a issue before we had mass EU immigration.

    Race relations steadily improved through the 80s and 90s. Only nasty fringe parties like NF and BNP talked about deportation. Up to the mid 00s most people were sympathetic to asylum seekers.

    Then too many purely economic migrants were allowed to come from Eastern European countries..... That is what caused this 'hostile environment', the government couldn't control EU migration so they started casting around for someone else to blame, trying to reduce non EU immigration to virtually zero, going to any lengths trying to root out illegal immigrants and never mind how many legal ones got caught up in the process.

    I firmly believe if we'd controlled EU migration better we wouldn't be in this mess. But we can't turn the clock back and we certainly shouldn't blame the EU migrants.
     
    likesfish likes this.
  14. steeplejack

    steeplejack Reluctant Hardliner

    can someone please explain why Theresa May, Amber Rudd's boss, is so consumingly obsessed with immigration?

    she always has been, dating back to her days before office, and I am absolutely at a loss to understand why.

    this has led to the indefensible "hostile environment" policies where Home Office officials are given targets to meet and no one is much interested in how they get there. That's before we get onto here immigration vans and the batshit-insane obsession with deporting recently graduated foreigners as soon as their studies finish. It's also the root of this current horrible problem for an ageing generation of folk who regard the UK as their home and have every right to. I very rarely agree with David Lammy but he made an excellent speech on this today.

    just...why? where does this obsession with immigration come from and where will it end?
     
    friendofdorothy and Slo-mo like this.
  15. teqniq

    teqniq DisMembered

    It's the nasty party innit.
     
  16. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

  17. steeplejack

    steeplejack Reluctant Hardliner

    Yeah, I read that, it's the origins of her choking mania for deporting people / hostile environments etc that I'm trying to understand.

    She makes Michael Howard look kind by comparison.
     
    Slo-mo likes this.
  18. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    So do I, but it seems there wasn't. It's a cock up of large proportions.

    I don't know how good the NI database is going back that far, or if it is in easily searchable form? Will school roles going back that far have been kept, and who will search them?

    Remember these are totally innocent people.....it's reasonable to send them a questionnaire about previous schools and jobs but the Home office should be doing most of the leg work IMHO.

    Some people may have come as babies and may not have had their first job until the 80s. Ultimately we are probably going to have to give some people the benefit of the doubt
     
    muscovyduck and likesfish like this.
  19. PursuedByBears

    PursuedByBears Go stick your head in a pig

    Plays well with the Daily Mail?
     
    likesfish likes this.
  20. Wilf

    Wilf Well-Known Member

    NI records should be good because they are still the basis on which you get your state pension and as such, will go back to that period.
     
  21. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s Well-Known Member

    Truly shameful behaviour by our decision makers. Can only hope that the Torys are again demonstrating to the younger voters what a bunch of class ridden cunts they are and how they deserve to be wiped off the political map.
     
    Slo-mo likes this.
  22. Lurdan

    Lurdan old wave

    By definition many people affected by this will not have proceeded very far through the school system and will be likely to have lived in areas where the schools they went to will have been merged or rationalised, or in some cases will have simply ceased to exist years ago. They will live in areas where doctors surgeries will have experienced the same sorts of change. They will have worked for employers who have long since gone out of business.

    You can't always rely on centralised official record keeping. I've been struck off the list for the GP I was with on instructions from the Health Authority who sent out a letter to find out if I was still alive but to my old address. When I was applying for state pension I discovered I could not do so online because the automated identity check repeatedly said no. This was resolved by ringing in person, but this took several attempts because HMRC records didn't have details of the address I have been living at for well over 25 years, nor the one before that. Despite the fact that throughout that period it had received annual returns with my current address on. I know because it was me that filed them.

    Much paper based official record keeping was quietly shambolic and designed for a rather different world. And not insignificant amounts of it no longer exist or are effectively inaccessible.
     
    muscovyduck and Slo-mo like this.
  23. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430

    If you want to understand what this represents, and what it means, ask yourself just how dull and grey the UK would be without the folks who chose to make the brave step to come here and work. Work. Not a free pass - they came here to work and often perform roles that other folks did not wish to undertake.

    The Tories are cunts.
     
  24. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    In the tech world people often talk about their concerns about too much data being collected by different organisations, and being kept for too long. In this case it seems we haven't kept enough
     
  25. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    PursuedByBears likes this.
  26. GarveyLives

    GarveyLives Well-Known Member

  27. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    A good speech. I hope the media sticks with this until it is sorted, and Labour keeps the pressure on.
     
  28. Mordi

    Mordi Amoral adventurist

    Definitely. There was an interview on R4 this afternoon with someone who'd been put into detention and threatened with deportation (he said he was detained on Monday and they booked a flight for Wednesday). He said the Home Office went to those lengths because for two years he was unemployed, not contributing to NI and so couldn't prove to them he hadn't left and re-entered the country.
     
  29. Lurdan

    Lurdan old wave

    As long as you can establish that you are the person the records refer to - which in some cases may be an interesting catch 22 - then broadly yes. But as I know from my own NI record statement that 'broadly' can have significant gaps. A new system was introduced for recording NI in 1975. Detailed annual records are not readily available before that only a summarized figure to that point. Records of the actual NI amounts paid over, as opposed to a simple tally of weeks for which NI was recorded as paid (the number of stamps you had) only became important after the introduction of SERPs in 1978. Looking at my own pre-1975 total I cannot reconcile the number of weekly NI credits recorded to the number of weeks I know I had worked before that.

    There will also be gaps if you worked for an arsehole who didn't actually make the return or pay over what he had deducted. I discovered I had worked for two such. And I discovered that for the period during the early 80s when I alternated periods of part-time work with periods signed on I had clearly not been credited with the periods of unemployment as I should have been.

    My working life has been far more straightforward than many peoples, and unlike many women for example, there are no very long gaps in my employment record. There are lots of people for whom that has not been the case.

    Relying on the NI record to determine a total of qualifying years and the amount due under the now abolished SERPs regime is one thing. Relying on it as a record that you were actually in the country is quite another.
     
  30. Slo-mo

    Slo-mo Well-Known Member

    Well IMHO people should be asked when they came to the UK, what schools they went to and details of when they started work. Where possible these should be checked. Where they can't be, the individual must simply be assumed to be telling the truth.

    If someone came to the UK as a baby in 1971 the first data we may have might be from the late 80s. So be it, providing dates tally, we must accept that. Sort this rapidly and don't repeat the mistake post Brexit.
     

Share This Page