The burka:as much a sex symbol as Page 3?

[Joe Reilly]

eh? i thought that the thread had meandered well away from the starting point. and it's my understanding that there isn't a section of the qu'ran which covers female streetwear.

Actually Pickman that was my point too. There is a thread here within a thread. The former has not even tried to reference the subject. There a bit like Trots aren't they?

 

[audiotech]

......and he ^ was doing so well an' all.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I take it you are unaware a Harley Street surgeon was recently struck off for that. The situation no longer applies.

Whether it still happens or not in Harley St or elsewhere dosen't get away from the problem of the mindset that considers it desirable, nor the Western Islampohiles who apologise for such a mindset in the mistaken belief that to raise objections would somehow be racist and contrary to the interests of women everywhere. In short your being hoodwinked.

 

[tobyjug]

In short your being hoodwinked.

I don't think so. (Unlike most males I have been in the womens area of a traditional Islamic household).
Islamic women are not as universally oppressed as Islamophobes would have us believe.

 

[Joe Reilly]

I don't think so. (Unlike most males I have been in the womens area of a traditional Islamic household).
Islamic women are not as universally oppressed as Islamophobes would have us believe.

Your ducking the core issue in the thread. Why?

 

[tobyjug]

Your ducking the core issue in the thread. Why?

Not ducking the core issue at all. The Burkha is not required by the Koran, it is cultural not religious.

 

[Nigel]

Does anyone find women in Burkhas attractive.
Is it like a Nun Thing.

 

[audiotech]

Does anyone find women in Burkhas attractive.
Is it like a Nun Thing.

Fetishists?

 

[Nigel]

Fetishists?

Is it seen in Middle Eastern cultures as a fetish. Do you get Burkha strip-a-grams at illegal drinking dens in Iran???

 

[Boogie Boy]

what's wrong with starting with the koran?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with reading the Qur'an, however it is often the case that 'reading' the Qur'an often leaves individuals confused, with what can often be seen as repetition, a lack of a clear thread or narrative, and the often 'confused' subject matter.

This confusion can also be attributed to the fact that much of the 'context' within which the Qur'an exists is unclear, uncertain and often deeply contested. Hence the importance of the ahadith and sunna.

BB

 

[Taxamo Welf]

As a semi-related point I did recently get close to £4000 for a block of islamic-themed porn domain names, although they're mostly unused at the moment.

good effort

 

[Joe Reilly]

Not ducking the core issue at all. The Burkha is not required by the Koran, it is cultural not religious.

This ignores the fact that religion is the dominant part of the culture in Muslim countries. It is the religiously minded that interpret exactly how the Koran and so forth is applied. What are avoiding discussing is the principle challenge: the belief that men need to be protected from the sexually rampant female which inspires the support the cover-up, which can begin pre-teen.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Does anyone find women in Burkhas attractive.
Is it like a Nun Thing.

Add on the latticed mask and the whole outfit is asexual as intended - meaning that there could be anyone under it. It could be woman it could be a man it could be a girl or it could be a boy. Perhaps it's the very ambiguity you find exciting?

 

[tobyjug]

the belief that men need to be protected from the sexually rampant female which inspires the support the cover-up, which can begin pre-teen.

And you think the age of consent of 16 in Britain has no similar basis?

 

[Nigel]

Add on the latticed mask and the whole outfit is asexual as intended - meaning that there could be anyone under it. It could be woman it could be a man it could be a girl or it could be a boy. Perhaps it's the very ambiguity you find exciting?

I'd never thought of it that way, cheeers Joe.
As long as their not wearing a Man Utd kit, I don't mind.

 

[belboid]

Joe - is your claim that repressing womens sexuality was the sole/main reason for the introduction of the hijab/burka? Or is it that that is the rationale offered by some people in Islamic countires? If the latter, this seems obvoius and barely worth commenting on, imo, but if the former - I would have thought some references would be useful to back up your claim.

And would you care to actually justify your linking this with FGM - a practise rejected by the vast majority of muslims across the world, including in the islamic countries. Preferably with some a little more than 'ooh, they're both about womens oppression'.

So far, all we have on this thread is a couple of assertions, designed, no doubt, to have a pop at the 'liberal left', ignoring how you also give succour to the racist right (eg JHE)

 

[Joe Reilly]

And you think the age of consent of 16 in Britain has no similar basis?

The age of consent at -16 - mind was introduced largely to protect vulnerable girls from predatory males. The exact opposite rationale, and the whole point of the thread.

 

[Joe Reilly]

Joe - is your claim that repressing womens sexuality was the sole/main reason for the introduction of the hijab/burka? Or is it that that is the rationale offered by some people in Islamic countires? If the latter, this seems obvoius and barely worth commenting on, imo, but if the former - I would have thought some references would be useful to back up your claim.

And would you care to actually justify your linking this with FGM - a practise rejected by the vast majority of muslims across the world, including in the islamic countries. Preferably with some a little more than 'ooh, they're both about womens oppression'.

So far, all we have on this thread is a couple of assertions, designed, no doubt, to have a pop at the 'liberal left', ignoring how you also give succour to the racist right (eg JHE)

Im really sure what your on about. All I am saying is that the mindset is the opposite of that of the West. FGM is albiet an extreme part of that thinking is entirely consistent with it.

The fear of giving succour argument is a joke surely?

 

[belboid]

Im really sure what your on about. All I am saying is that the mindset is the opposite of that of the West. FGM is albiet an extreme part of that thinking is entirely consistent with it.

assuming you missed out a 'not' in the first bit, then I think we're having a mutual lack of clarity. What do you mean by 'the mindset'? That makes it sound as tho you are saying there is a single homogonous 'islamic world' mindset. Surely not?

The fear of giving succour argument is a joke surely?

just a thing that whenever anyone has JHE on their side, it's a bad sign!

 

[Pickman's model]

true.

 

[Joe Reilly]

assuming you missed out a 'not' in the first bit, then I think we're having a mutual lack of clarity. What do you mean by 'the mindset'? That makes it sound as tho you are saying there is a single homogonous 'islamic world' mindset. Surely not?

The playing of the 'succour to the right' card is designed as you well know to stifle debate. I'm surprised you still think that still has currency on here.

As for the wider point, my point is itself a wide one.

Again it is a old trick to go: 'you not saying this applies to every Muslim' etc but at the end of the day if there are dissenting Muslim voices they are few and far between. There are probably good reasons for this, but, that as they say, is a story for another day.

Finally if you think Muslim religion or culture places an importance on womens 'modesty' purely out of respect for women, (as gullible apologists assume is the case) by all means produce the evidence and we can discuss it.

 

[belboid]

The playing of the 'succour to the right' card is designed as you well know to stifle debate. I'm surprised you still think that still has currency on here.

or to make you think about making a statement that allows wankers to be one 'your side'. often the point is genreally valid, but it is too vaguley made - there is no reason at all why it should stifle debate.

As for the wider point, my point is itself a wide one.

Again it is a old trick to go: 'you not saying this applies to every Muslim' etc but at the end of the day if there are dissenting Muslim voices they are few and far between. There are probably good reasons for this, but, that as they say, is a story for another day.

Finally if you think Muslim religion or culture places an importance on womens 'modesty' purely out of respect for women, (as gullible apologists assume is the case) by all means produce the evidence and we can discuss it.

mmm,firstly, I never said 'purely'. Secondly, you made the initial assertion, so it is rather up to you to provide evidence in the first place.

As to the specifics of FGM as an example of Islamic societies treatment of women, as this is only practised in a very small number of Islamic societies, it is actually a very poor example, one which doesn't really help your case, I don't think. It'd be like saying all England fans are racists because of the actions of a few of them at a match against Ireland.

I'm not saying your argument is totally wrong - I honestly don't know. I agree that some islamists will justify the burka in the way you say, what I am not sure about is the extent to which this is true.

So far, you haven't offered any actual evidence as to how widepsread it actually is.

 

[mutley]

Again it is a old trick to go: 'you not saying this applies to every Muslim' etc but at the end of the day if there are dissenting Muslim voices they are few and far between. There are probably good reasons for this, but, that as they say, is a story for another day.

.

If you are saying that dissenting voices to the burka are few and far between you're dead wrong. Many many muslims are absolutely clear that wearing the burka is not in any sense a requirement for women under Islam.

 

[tobyjug]

The age of consent at -16 - mind was introduced largely to protect vulnerable girls from predatory males. The exact opposite rationale, and the whole point of the thread.

Not to protect young girls from themselves? (I am thinking of several threads on U75 forums on the subject)

 

[foggypane]

I think I speak for many heterosexual men when I say that page 3 is in no sense a sex symbol.

Then again, I read the Indy.

And, come to think of it, burkas give me the horn.