The Brixton Bar

[Minnie_the_Minx]

how very welcoming, frisking people on the way into the brixton forum - talk about a door policy!

anyway, in order to quell suspicions i have checked ips and emails and it would appear that the two new users are completely separate people who have not previously been registered on urban.

so, welcome sophie and amy!

Yeah, but I'm a temp. I could log a new handle at every job I go to.

 

[Ol Nick]

A simple IP search will reveal who it is.

Great!!

What's that then?

I reckon they're both hatboy.

 

[hendo]

anyhoo, I have been registered for over a year, just too scared to post!

I feel ashamed. Still, welcome Amy.

 

[Anna Key]

Welcome Sophie and Amy. Sorry you got frisked.

Some of us feel that Brixton's accessibility to people on lower income groups is gradually being reduced, and that the area's eclectic and artistic character is in some undefinable way diluted by the arrival of twenty something professionals.

The BBG might seem to them to be the visible part of the iceberg of gentrification, which is a word not used on these boards in a universally positive sense.

Others of us feel that any new business on Atlantic Road, particularly one that brings money and life into the area, is a thing to be applauded rather than denounced.

I'm in the last group.

I'm in the first group.

A venture such as BBG, with its pricing policy, effectively slaps poor people across the face. This makes them angry and resentful. They feel - and become - "socially excluded."

Some people just don't like being slapped - the ungrateful buggers.

So BBG can be described as "an engine of social exclusion."

A venue which previously sold fairly cheap food - Pangea - has been replaced by a venue selling fairly expensive food.

This may not be BBG's fault. I don't know how much rent they pay and perhaps they need to charge a lot of money - for delicious small portions served by extremely friendly staff - to break even. And perhaps Pangea left because of a rent-hike.

But whatever the book keeping economics, the net result is:

- Cheap place closes
- Expensive place opens
- Poor people are excluded

The same happened with:

Dogstar (formally the Atlantic)
Living Bar (formally the Coach & Horses)
The Queen (yuppiefied)
Brady's (permanently shut)

If you're a free market economist all this is fine. It's simply the shoe pinching as money flushes about and an area gentrifies. Nothing stays the same. All is cash-lubricated flux.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. Particularly at BBG.

But I'm not a free market economist. Rents can be pegged. Planning and licensing laws can be deployed to encourage some ventures, discourage others.

There's no need for poor people to be slapped.

But they are slapped because (a) someone wants to slap them or (b) nobody cares or (c) the wealthy are sufficiently scared to keep their hands to themselves.

 

[sophie]

grammar school in Surrey actually...and yes indeed if ever short of a few bob i could pawn one of my 4 sets of pearls...

thank you for the welcome..

 

[Anna Key]

I feel ashamed.

So you should. You're a damn scary fellow Mr H. And that Ms T...

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

=Anna KeyThe same happened with:

Dogstar (formally the Atlantic)
Living Bar (formally the Coach & Horses)
The Queen (yuppiefied)
Brady's (permanently shut)

and the White Horse, The George IV and The Telegraph

 

[IntoStella]

how very welcoming, frisking people on the way into the brixton forum - talk about a door policy!

anyway, in order to quell suspicions i have checked ips and emails and it would appear that the two new users are completely separate people who have not previously been registered on urban.

so, welcome sophie and amy!

That's good, because Mike told me a few minutes ago that there were technical problems with the admin panel and he couldn't do this. Glad to see you've got it sorted out so quickly.

And glad to see that the Brixton bar and grill has got Sophie and Amy so fired up that they have both decided to come out in its defence at the same time. You're right, of course. It doesn't look the least bit suspicious.

Minnie the minx -- watch the tonality, young lady...

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

grammar school in Surrey actually...and yes indeed if ever short of a few bob i could pawn one of my 4 sets of pearls...

thank you for the welcome..

Well I was near enough then

Sophie and Amy

 

[Ol Nick]

A venture such as BBG, with its pricing policy, effectively slaps poor people across the face. This makes them angry and resentful. They feel - and become - "socially excluded."

Who are these eggshell personalities who feel "slapped" because there are richer people than them in the world? If they -- whoever they are -- have a problem, then it is surely their problem to deal with. It's no good living in Brixton and assuming the world of richer people has nothing to do with you. The rich are always with us.

Having said which...I'd personally have preferred a mid-range workaday place like Pangaea to stay as it was. And the Brixton Grill Bah doesn't have Atlantic66's excuse of opening up a new building. It exists at the expense of something else.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Minnie the minx -- watch the tonality, young lady...

Yes Miss

anyway, like I said, if they have access to lots of PCs, they could have loads of handles no?

 

[Anna Key]

and the White Horse, The George IV and The Telegraph

Sorry. So the list goes:

Dogstar (formally the Atlantic)
Living Bar (formally the Coach & Horses)
The Queen (yuppiefied)
Brady's (permanently shut)
White Horse (yuppiefied)
The George IV (yuppiefied)
The Telegraph (yuppiefied)
BBG (formally Pangea, now an "engine of social exclusion")

Any more?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Sorry. So the list goes:

Dogstar (formally the Atlantic)
Living Bar (formally the Coach & Horses)
The Queen (yuppiefied)
Brady's (permanently shut)
White Horse (yuppiefied)
The George IV (yuppiefied)
The Telegraph (yuppiefied)
BBG (formally Pangea, now an "engine of social exclusion")

Any more?

The Hope - vodkafied

 

[Anna Key]

Who are these eggshell personalities who feel "slapped" because there are richer people than them in the world?

The problem isn't the presence of rich people in the world - some of my best wives have been rich people - it's when the rich nick stuff from the poor. When they exclude the poor from areas they previously occupied. That's the slapping I'm referring to.

Sometimes it's called 'colonisation' and those 'colonised' tend to object. Are you suggesting they should 'take it on the chin?'

 

[IntoStella]

Plan B -- formerly the Wimpy! Seriously, apart from the Beehive, the aroma of which does not mix well with a fresh hangover, where else can you get a dirt cheap fry-up on a Sunday morning? Brixton is an egg-and-chip desert!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

The Hope - vodkafied

Although it didn't last

 

[sophie]

i find the comment "A venture such as BBG, with its pricing policy, effectively slaps poor people across the face. This makes them angry and resentful. They feel - and become - "socially excluded." a little hard to comprehend.

firslty what is the bench mark for being poor? homeless, unemployed, employed in a job that pays lower than the avergae wage??

do those who are not "poor" slapping others across the face when they look to enjoy the money that they work hard to earn???

when i enjoy a cocktail at the BBG am i really making others feel angry and resentful towards me??

would you suggest that i spend my spare time in the albert and only eat out at macdonalds as not to socailly exlcude others???

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Plan B -- formerly the Wimpy! Seriously, apart from the Beehive, the aroma of which does not mix well with a fresh hangover, where else can you get a dirt cheap fry-up on a Sunday morning? Brixton is an egg-and-chip desert!

Yep, even our working mens cafes have been yuppified

 

[editor]

But whatever the book keeping economics, the net result is:

- Cheap place closes
- Expensive place opens
- Poor people are excluded

The same happened with:

Dogstar (formally the Atlantic)
Living Bar (formally the Coach & Horses)
The Queen (yuppiefied)
Brady's (permanently shut)

If you're a free market economist all this is fine. It's simply the shoe pinching as money flushes about and an area gentrifies. Nothing stays the same. All is cash-lubricated flux.

I think that's way too simplistic an analysis.

The Coach and Horses shut because for its last five years barely a soul set foot in the place. It served dreadful beer (if the taps were working at all) and the selection of food and drink on offer could best be described as miserable. My original review of the pub described it as the 'X Files of Coldharbour Lane' because it was always eerily empty.

The Atlantic still holds the record for the least welcoming pub I've ever set foot in and much as I hated the Dogstar's initial 'whitey wine bar' image, it's established itself as a welcome addition to Brixton's late night drinkeries, populated by mixed locals during the week (the less said about weekends the better!).

I don't think it has an exclusive policy on the door either - they certainly always let me and my scruffy mates in! After the Merrits were booted out, the pub has offered its space for a host of community ventures and I can;t say I'd prefer to have the Atlantic back, thanksverymuch.

The Queen survived on its 'jazz' licensing and much as I miss the place, it's hardly surprising that its number was eventually called. I never went there during normal drinking hours, so I've no idea if its new owners have yuppified the place or not.

And I'm not sure if the plight of Brady's is directly linked to yuppification or (cocked up) regeneration.

Personally, I haven't the slightest problem with the Brixton Bar and Grill. I may like it, I may not. But so long as such bars aren't replacing decent pubs, why should I care? I'd certainly prefer to have a yuppie bar employing local people than a street full of empty, boarded up abandoned shops...

 

[IntoStella]

The Hope - vodkafied

The estate pub that became Babushka.

 

[Ol Nick]

The estate pub that became Babushka.

Ya-a ya.

 

[Anna Key]

i find the comment "A venture such as BBG, with its pricing policy, effectively slaps poor people across the face. This makes them angry and resentful. They feel - and become - "socially excluded." a little hard to comprehend.

Sorry! Welcome again BTW.

firslty what is the bench mark for being poor? homeless, unemployed, employed in a job that pays lower than the avergae wage??

In this case, someone who can't afford the "delicious small portions served by extremely friendly staff" at BBG.

do those who are not "poor" slapping others across the face when they look to enjoy the money that they work hard to earn???

If they enjoy their hard-earned cash at the poor's expense then yes.

when i enjoy a cocktail at the BBG am i really making others feel angry and resentful towards me??

Yes.

would you suggest that i spend my spare time in the albert and only eat out at macdonalds as not to socailly exlcude others???

The Albert's a lovely pub run by great people but it is a bit pricey. I know the landlord is doing his best to get a good cheap ale.

Can I suggest the Beehive?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

The estate pub that became Babushka.

Yeah, sitting there doing sod all now

 

[miss minnie]

That's good, because Mike told me a few minutes ago that there were technical problems with the admin panel and he couldn't do this. Glad to see you've got it sorted out so quickly.

the admin panel is giving us lots of grief. luckily you use the mod panel to check ips and that is working fine, thanks for asking.

And glad to see that the Brixton bar and grill has got Sophie and Amy so fired up that they have both decided to come out in its defence at the same time. You're right, of course. It doesn't look the least bit suspicious.

whether or not it looks suspicious, there is no proof.

 

[editor]

Sorry. So the list goes:
White Horse (yuppiefied)
The George IV (yuppiefied)
The Telegraph (yuppiefied)
BBG (formally Pangea, now an "engine of social exclusion")
Any more?

And what do you think might have happened to those pubs if they hadn't adapted to attract a new clientèle?

Have you ever considered that some folk (from all backgrounds) no longer want to drink Witherthorpe's Pigeon Stout in the Old Phlegm and Trout, playing dominoes in dimly lit, smoke filled, yellow stained bars?

I don't feel economically or socially excluded from any of the 'yuppiefied' pubs above.

 

[Anna Key]

And what do you think might have happened to those pubs if they hadn't adapted to attract a new clientèle?

Carried on as before. Welcoming everyone, rich or poor, from all backgrounds. That's what Brixton is good at.

Have you ever considered that some folk (from all backgrounds) no longer want to drink Witherthorpe's Pigeon Stout in the Old Phlegm and Trout, playing dominoes in dimly lit, smoke filled, yellow stained bars?

Yes. Some people are odd.

I don't feel economically or socially excluded from any of the 'yuppiefied' pubs above.

Good!

I'm very carefully not laying into BBG. I'm sure it's a great place run by very hard working people who deserve every success. I'm laying into the political framework which permits BBG to operate.

 

[IntoStella]

the admin panel is giving us lots of grief. luckily you use the mod panel to check ips and that is working fine, thanks for asking.

Well, that was what he said. Odd.

whether or not it looks suspicious, there is no proof.

Guv. .........

 

[fanta]

No no no no no!

Anna Key is quite right - he doesn't need to have actually visited the place to know that!

Tsk!

This new place is obviously an organised dastardly plot by Middle England and it means that Brixton is now changed forever. It'll never be the same. Ever!

It is an absolute disaster!

Woe woe woe woe!

 

[Anna Key]

No no no no no!

Anna Key is quite right - he doesn't need to have actually visited the place to know that!

Tsk!

This new place is obviously an organised dastardly plot by Middle England and it means that Brixton is now changed forever. It'll never be the same. Ever!

It is an absolute disaster!

Woe woe woe woe!

LOL at Fanta.

(((Fanta)))

 

[Ol Nick]

When they exclude the poor from areas they previously occupied. That's the slapping I'm referring to.

Places are going to change. People's tastes change. The Beehive took over the mantle of the old style boozer and it's a very different conception with cheap food, no smoking areas and real ales. (And do you remember that nice pub opposite the Living Bah that suddenly went all yellow and orange and trendy a few years back -- I don't like the look of that at all.)

The problem with being poor is not having enough money and that must be dealt with directly. Objecting to the changing style of pubs and restaurants in Brixton should be left to the forces of conservatism. It's an appeal to sentiment and not to material interest.

Sometimes it's called 'colonisation' and those 'colonised' tend to object. Are you suggesting they should 'take it on the chin?'

Of course. It's all a question of spunk and moral fibre.